What I do not understand about "prop firms"...

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by Overnight, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Overnight


    Why does every "prop" firm out there charge money to trade a sim account? This leads me to believe that all prop firms are scams.

    After all, how much money does it REALLY cost to allow someone access to a sim account with whatever data feed they have to trade your "proprietary account"?

    It is all fake money anyways. So allow them free access to the sim account with whatever platform and datafeed they are comfortable with using. Why force them into new situations with which they may not be comfortable? No wonder most of them FAIL. You impel upon them unnecessary rules and edicts which simply do not apply in the real world.

    And don't try to baffle me with the margin bullshit. There are ways to control that on the backend. You "prop firms" all want profitable traders, but you all take the short-term track of "We cannot control what our trainees do, so we must "fix" them", and charge them money for your simulated loss. I call bollocks on that.

    From a RL perspective, I can tell you whole-heartedly... YOU guys are doing it wrong. You all are focused on day-trading. Dudes, day-trading is DEAD. It can no longer work in the prop environment. No WONDER you cannot find good traders and instead choose to exploit the masses with charging money with strict rules for day-trading simulation.

    YOU PROP FIRMS ARE NOW PART OF THE PROBLEM. You are not the solution.

    You guys are making money on the idea of, and in fact promoting, the FAILURE of most traders. So you make money on their failures. Would it not be more profitable for you to stoke profitable traders? Your process is flawed. And you are killing market liquidity with your actions. It is almost criminal. Seriously.

    vanzandt and comagnum like this.
  2. Yukoner


    You aren't describing a real prop firm. TRUE prop puts up their own money, trains the trader, and has a vested interest in seeing them succeed.
    Proptrader23 likes this.
  3. Overnight


    Have any examples of this? A TRUE prop firm?
  4. traderjo


    Overnight, with 4000+ posts I hope your assessment of the props is taken seriously and not just as a rant, I could not agree more with what you have said.
    But as Yukoner mentioned , I am assuming you are referring to the so called Props whose business model is "get thousands in with monthly test fees and hope they go on a hamster wheel, "
    Because I think there are still true top level Props who hunt talent at their own cost by going to Uni campuses and recruit top graduates etc or exp seasoned traders!
    The reason is pure and simple the true indentation is "Grab the test fees, hope most fail and fund very few" Hope this thread and post lasts for long! and does not get shut down ( for obvious reasons)
    The other BS that is peddled is,
    - We are bringing trading to the masses!
    - It is a free market any body should be allowed to do anything
    Another thing to notice is The company that sells "Tests" is diff than the one actually funding! I wonder why is that!
    If you compare that to Equity prop like Bright and Avtar etc it is not the case
    Something not 100%
    If the intention is talent hunt then with technology I am sure accessing the test results would be very cheap
    any way IMHO after "Get rich quick trading education selling" this is the new frontier of selling snake oil
    Peter10 and comagnum like this.
  5. traderjo


  6. treeman


    I don’t claim to know whether these are scams or not, but personally, there is no way in hell I would fund someone for being profitable in a sim account with nothing on the line. That would be a sure fire way for me to lose my money.
    comagnum and fan27 like this.
  7. dealmaker


  8. tst.png

    Look at the ad I got for this thread. They are able to offer 100% profits because they make enough on brokerage cuts and "test" fees lol.
    traderjo likes this.
  9. QuasWexExort,

    I have the OP on ignore because of his negativity. But the way you copied and pasted his entire post allowed me to see him and it reminded me of why I put him on ignore.

    That offer is for the first 5k after you get funded...they want you to try. Why is this advertising ploy any different from other advertising ploys in America? Nothing new or shocking here at all.

  10. Sprout


    It's not. It's an upfront deal and for many the easiest access to capital.

    What the OP says is true for him and many like him. It's not the truth for everyone.

    From my pov, even though he's got good taste in music, he's more interested in finding other people whom think like him than doing the work necessary to change his perception and think like the minority - the minority that take the opposite of his trades however seldom they may be.

    He has the mistaken belief that since he hasn't figured it out, it's not possible.

    All he needs to do is think different thoughts, look in places he hasn't looked by virtue of not giving up. It's unfortunate that the general countenance of his ilk, do to chronic complaining, rudeness and lack of offered respect makes inaccessible the support they seek. For some reason they are attached to righteous indignation and bray 'prove it.' Well if one hasn't figured out the only proof one will ever believe is the one that they work out for themselves, not must else can be said.

    It's simple, he uses the wrong math. The math of the markets is boolean. Until one figures that out much a wheel spinning there will be.

    Even diligent back-testers must acknowledge that the final result of their tests are boolean - Does this strategy have positive expectancy?

    Accelerated learning is possible but only though forward testing, backtest's are fundamentally flawed due to the math. They are at best approximations.

    It's due to the lack of attention to the permitting and gating of volume. For some it's a philosophical stance, others it's a logical conundrum, and still others whom go about testing the veracity of that principle for themselves.

    I certainly wish the OP good fortune, but his current thinking is not supportive of that direction.

    Perhaps it's all necessary to come to the conclusion that he's more an investor than a trader.
    #10     Sep 15, 2018