American debt

Discussion in 'Economics' started by Drawdown Addict, May 4, 2024.

  1. ph1l

    ph1l

  2. piezoe

    piezoe

    You, as an exception to some of the crowd here, are, it seems, actually beginning to catch on. This may help. A fundamental difference between real borrowing and ersatz borrowing is that there is no printing in real borrowing! That's not an explanation of why ersatz borrowing follows printing, virtually to the penny!. (I have explained that elsewhere.) Try to find time to read any of the sources I mentioned, and of course there are many more expert sources. Is this an easy concept to wrap ones head around. No. It's opaque as can be.
     
    #42     Jun 21, 2024
  3. piezoe

    piezoe

    What you are calling the the "debt" is not imaginary! It's just not debt. It is a future obligation to expand the money supply (Not the total money, but the "money supply") by an amount not compensated by future revenue increases are spending cuts.
     
    #43     Jun 21, 2024
  4. piezoe

    piezoe

    The product of 15 years of study I suppose.
    It is helpful to look at these transactions not solely from the lenders viewpoint, which you naturally do because you are playing the role of the lender, but from the ersatz borrower's viewpoint as well. "You have to look at the entire Treasury-Fed operation to understand thoroughly the difference between real borrowing which some countries do to a limited extent, they hope, and ersatz borrowing that the U.S. and a few others countries can do at will.

    Here are questions you might ask:
    a) If the U.S. can engage in real borrowing, why does it, nowadays, always cover its deficits with newly printed money?
    b) If the, U.S. always covers its deficits with printing of new money, why does it issue bonds?

    I have suggested reading that can answer these questions for you. Or you could read and study my posts in the economics forum.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2024
    #44     Jun 21, 2024
  5. SunTrader

    SunTrader

    I've read many sources that say different.

    I'll stick with those. You can't stick with ersatz.
     
    #45     Jun 21, 2024
  6. 2rosy

    2rosy

    didn't think anyone took mmt seriously.
     
    #46     Jun 21, 2024
  7. ph1l

    ph1l

    I take back my use of "imaginary" to summarize your views (I don't want to have another vocabulary argument).

    The U.S. government (and just about everyone else) calls it debt.
    https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/ame...eral income tax,-protected securities (TIPS) .
    upload_2024-6-21_15-3-48.png


    Can't we just agree it's spelled d-e-b-t but pronounced "a future obligation to expand the money supply by an amount not compensated by future revenue increases are spending cuts" similar to

    ?:D
     
    #47     Jun 21, 2024
  8. mervyn

    mervyn

    i have no idea you went to school or home educated. voodoo beliefs at best, like this guy, don’t even need money, just face to face handshakes.

     
    #48     Jun 21, 2024
  9. piezoe

    piezoe

    I think you meant to say, I can stick with ersatz until proven wrong. :D

    You are right of course. The majority of writing re the so-called national debt does "say different"!, just as at one time the majority of writing re planetary motion had the sun going around the Earth. However the MMT economists have facts on their side. And facts are a powerful thing.

    MMT core tenets go back as far as at least the early 20th Century. Yet MMT concepts were largely unrecognized by the economists of the latter half of the 20th Century. Thankfully MMT it is now getting the attention it well deserves. My posts here are partly to that end. I looked at You Tube to see if I could find some critiques, debates, explanations or contrasts between mainstream economics and MMT. Here is a couple of videos I found. These three guys are all founders of MMT. Mosler is usually credited with having come up with the actual expression Modern Money Theory. (The use of "Money" for "Monetary" is my way of paying homage to plain English.)





     
    #49     Jun 21, 2024
  10. piezoe

    piezoe

    Sorry about the typo in my post you were responding to: "What you are calling the "debt" is not imaginary! It's just not debt. It is a future obligation to expand the money supply (Not the total money, but the "money supply") by an amount not compensated by future revenue increases are spending cuts." This should have read "... not compensated by future revenue increases or spending cuts.

    With regard to:

    "The U.S. government (and just about everyone else) calls it debt." ​

    No argument there. Even the MMT economists refer to the Securities sold by the Treasury as "Debt". The expression "Ersatz Debt" is my own.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2024
    #50     Jun 21, 2024