Zimmerman charged with 2nd degree murder

Discussion in 'Politics' started by gwb-trading, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. Never mentioned first degree murder, premeditated or anything like that. Just doing something stupid, and using a gun. If there were 20 kids carrying off stolen items, I doubt he would have confronted them, being scared to death. But one kid walking home, no problem.
     
    #41     Apr 11, 2012
  2. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    The problem with your explanation is that the police identified Trayvon Martin within hours of the shooting. This is evidenced by the police report that was filed at 3:07am in the morning the day after the shooting.
     
    #42     Apr 11, 2012
  3. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

    this source says he was tagged as john doe because of lack of identification and next day his father was notified. There was a delay in releasing body to funeral director but that seems reasonable
     
    #43     Apr 11, 2012
  4. I really really shouldn't, but there's three questions that immediately pop out at you from that report:

    1 - Trayvon being fully id'd, which is what we're talking about here.
    2 - The charges at the top. Someone around here posted in one of the earlier threads that Zimmerman had in fact been arrested. So how did he wind up being un-arrested, and so quickly?
    3 - Martin's hands were under him. That's odd. Say you're Zimmerman, and you fire up at this guy who's beatin on you while you're on the ground. Somehow you manage to get him off you while getting none of his blood on you, and somehow he lands on the ground as if he fell there face first, whereas if I were pulling some dead weight off me like that I'd imagine the guy might land face up, and either way the arms would be in some random positions, not both underneath. That suggests clutching at the wound while going down. Between that and the no blood on Zimmerman we get back to the question of just where Zimmerman really was when he squeezed off that shot.

    But then, as some random fool who's now on ignore said a ways back, I really shouldn't ever serve on a jury.
     
    #44     Apr 11, 2012
  5. They would not id him as male subject if they knew who he was. His name was added later. That is why they went to the father with pictures. At 3am they did NOT know it was treyvon martin.
     
    #45     Apr 11, 2012
  6. ...which gets back to one of two choices: either they knew and didn't say, or didn't and later falsified the report.
    At the top it says it was completed at 3:07 on 2/27. There is no notation anywhere that an id was added later on.
    This ain't someone's hastily written notes: it's an official report of the incident.
     
    #46     Apr 11, 2012
  7. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    You are making the claim that the Sanford police department illegally altered the police report after the 3:07am filing instead of filing additional amendment documents as required by FBLE regulations. Better call the FBLE to let them know about this... hope you have proof.
     
    #47     Apr 11, 2012
  8. The classic second degree murder case is the "heat of passion" killing or "hot blooded" killing, like a husband unexpectedly finding his wife in bed with another man and killing either or both in a fit of rage. Second degree murder can also be a case where a person through an act or a series of actions sets up a dangerous condition in which the killing occurred, which is the likely prosecution argument against Zimmerman here. Whether or not Zimmerman set up such a condition is a question of fact that a jury will decide. The standard defense against second degree murder is that the killing was justified or excusable as self defense, which Zimmerman will no doubt make in this case.

    Complicating the prosecution's case is the Florida statute that does not require a person to retreat before using deadly force to defend himself, the so-called "stand your ground" law. Without this statute, Zimmerman would have had the burden of convincing a jury that he attempted to retreat prior to using deadly force - an apparently tall order in light of the few facts that have come out.

    In any event, I think it is a fair result for the case to go to trial given the turmoil in the community. And perhaps it is even best for Zimmerman as well if he is eventually acquitted after his side of the story comes to light. I don't think the prosecution has an easy case, but as the OJ case showed, the selection of the jurors will be paramount to the outcome at trial.
     
    #48     Apr 11, 2012
  9. I would not put much stock into the time stamp. It could mean the initial prepare date and not count any amendments. They would not come to his father with pictures if they knew 100% who he was. Nor would they label him as john doe int he morgue. Reuters article I linked has a nice description of it where it says "Treyvon Martin as John Doe"
     
    #49     Apr 11, 2012
  10. First off there's what gwb just said about that, and second, there's a lot of timestamps on that report, not just the one at the top. Ayala's narrative is timestamped 2:28. None of the timestamps are after 3:07.
    So, once again, either they knew, or they falsified.
     
    #50     Apr 11, 2012