zero sum game?????????????

Discussion in 'Trading' started by madmunny, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. cache landing, you are absolutely correct

    as i try to explain to the dimwitted...

    if the stock market goes down 20% a year for the next 10 years

    it's still not zero sum

    people who are arguing against the stock market being zero sum

    don't understand what zero sum means

    people who are arguing that wealth cannot be created in an economic system, don't understand economies.

    and of course this can be disproved thusly

    is there more (or less) wealth than there was 200 yrs ago

    in the USA?
    worldwide?

    if so, wealth can be created and destroyed.

    futures markets cannot do so. they can only transfer it

    because all net gains are offsetted by net losses

    nimrods above think if u buy ABCD at 5, sell ABCD at 10, and it goes to 20, that is a "net loss".

    lol
     
    #551     Nov 6, 2006
  2. no, you don't

    if i am hedging a position in the cash market, with a futures position that says nothing about the futures market being zero sum

    it means that if you COMBINE a zero sum market and a non-zero sum market you get a non zero sum market

    i'll make this math easy for you

    zero sum market + non-zero sum market = a combined non zero sum market

    zero sum market + zero sum market = zero sum market

    non-zero sum market + non-zero sum market = non-zero sum market

    the issue here is not about intermarkte positioning. it is about the structure OF individual types of markets

    futures markets are ALL zero sum

    the combined market of all zero sum markets is a larger zero sum market

    anytime you introduce a non-zero sum market and aggregate it with a zero sum market, the aggregate market (the set of submarkets) becomes nonzero sum
     
    #552     Nov 6, 2006
  3. Eventually they will read up a bit on game theory and realize where they went wrong. Don't worry about it, you've done your part to educate.

    The interesting thing is that if you start a debate about whether or not the market is a losing game, the thread will die after a day or so, and that point is actually debatable. But, you start one on a point like this that is not even remotely debatable and everyone keep trying to prove it wrong. LOL
     
    #553     Nov 6, 2006
  4. I will just repeat this post I made back on page 54 on March 1st of this thread.
     
    #554     Nov 6, 2006
  5. But

    I actually think the one on page 92 is actually better and maybe even more accurate.:D :D :D
     
    #555     Nov 6, 2006
  6. can i repeat my senior year of high school

    if i could go back with what i know now, i could rule them like a colossus of yore
     
    #556     Nov 6, 2006
  7. I don't know why you quoted me. The argument at the time was about wealth creation. I was pointing out that the futures market is not zero sum when you include the cash market, much like the stock market is not zero sum when you include the company that sold the stock in the first place.

    The commercials and the companies do not LOSE money when the price of the contract goes up.

    You laugh at people for not reading and understanding, and then you don't read and understand.
     
    #557     Nov 6, 2006
  8. Man I hear that.:D :D
     
    #558     Nov 6, 2006
  9. "futures market is not zero sum when you include the cash market,"

    well... duh

    the FUTURES market is zero sum

    the cash market isn't

    when you combine one with the other, you get a non-zero sum market

    my weekly poker game is zero sum

    when i combine it with the economy of ecuador, it's non-zero sum

    :)
     
    #559     Nov 6, 2006
  10. You're so busy arguing with everyone, that now you're arguing with people who agree with you.
     
    #560     Nov 6, 2006