[/B][/QUOTE]i]Quote from whitster:[/i] PLEASE trade YM. i need some more traders to provide liquidity to me. thanks [/B][/QUOTE] LOL!!!! I'm simply amazed that this thread is 40 pages long and so many are actually arguing that the stock market is a zero sum game. The dumbing down of America is in full swing! st
all these maroons posting here might be signs of a bubble. it was said that JP Morgan (iirc) pulled his money out of the market because he was taking an elevator ride, and operator started bragging about what a killing he was making in the stock market. when an elevator operator in 1929 is making a "killing in the stock market" (most probably using a bucket shop with 10 : 1 margin), that is a pure sign that all the buyers are already in, and it can only go down. another great bearish sign was when a famed economist stated "the market appears to have reached a PERMANANTLY high plateau" lol. that was almost as "prescient" as Bill Gates comment about RAM, or the patent office dood who claimed near the beginning of the 20th century that the patent office was rapidly becoming obsolete because everything that could be invented has pretty much already been invented. those who don't learn from history...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from Perseus: if you can't understand that even in the futures markets that non-zero sum is possible (both the farmers and the Archer daniels benefit regarless of who made or lost money) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A new day and this thread continues. The farmer and Archer Daniels are not the futures market. They are participants in the futures market. If you cannot distinguish between these two facts you will never grasp the concept that the future market is zero sum. Participants in the futures market (the farmer) can lose money on their futures contracts and still come out ahead overall. You are trying to broadly define the futures market to include all transactions of anybody who participates in the futures market. Using your definition the entire economy is "the futures market" because everyone in some way or the other is related to futures transactions. The net sum of all long and short corn future contracts is always zero and always has to be. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from Perseus: not everyone is a poker player, but for us poker players it pretty is zero sum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Pretty zero sum" ?!? Either it is or it isnt zero sum. Didn't you say earlier it isnt zero sum because entertainment is generated? Critical thinking isn't your strong suit, is it? I am sorry you are able to not expand your thinking beyond your narrow and closed minded version of things. I posted the definition of zero sum game and I clearly posted an example of a futures market transaction where both parties benefit, therefore the futures market is not zero sum. your statement here is revealing of YOUR inability to think critically: The farmer and Archer Daniels are not the futures market. They are participants in the futures market. If you cannot distinguish between these two facts you will never grasp the concept that the future market is zero sum. participants are not the marketplace???? god man get a friggen clue. Lets see, if we take away all the players at a poker game why we still have the poker game!! brilliant baby! In any event the definition of non zero sum clearly states that if both PARTICIPANTS benefit then the game is not zero sum, you have all but admitted this by the fact that the farmer can lose money yet benefit. Example 2: The farmer sells a corn contract and delivers one month later. The price of corn goes up in the interim but by delivering he negates the debit from his account. Either by offsetting and settling in the cash market or by delivery the fact that his futures account was debited doesn't matter, he still sold his corn and didn't lose money in the process.
I am so glad that this thread has came around to the truth about markets. In no way shape or form are the futures, options, currency and stock markets a zero sum game. The concept of what money really is holds the key to this. Every transaction made is a form of fiat money. This money created is then distributed amongst the participants as form of seniorage. Markets create a great deal of the money in our economy and spread out risk so that business can operate.
Somewhere I read that supposedly Einstein replied when asked if the universe was infinite: "I do not know about the universe but human stupidity is without doubt infinite"
I happen to grow corn, have pigs and hens and even own GE stock. All these things create wealth but the futures and options contracts that I use to hedge myself are all zero sum instruments. I'm not a farmer btw. Just trying to post a point
are you referring to me? perhaps do I post to wake some of the younger generation up who seem to be unable to think for themselves. That generation who is unable to do any calculation without a calculator, unable to give change at the checkout counter without a calculator and whose games are not requiring any thinking or reasoning. if you have been lecturing in any varsity then you would have seen the demise of the quality of the essays handed in and the timeline with that is coinciding with the introduction of computers and the internet. all the stuff these days is regurgitating things found somewhere else and little to no original thought. I call it the "dumbing down" of the population. peace maria
the attitude of some posters in this thread is just chilling...no education, no sensibility, no nothin' I wasn't addressing' u in particular but I noticed that once a poster here started flyin' insults left and right some others jumped in like in a fight they couldn't resist to participate, just for the joy of humiliating. if school has taught them something it certainly wasn't manners.