zero sum game?????????????

Discussion in 'Trading' started by madmunny, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. 1000

    1000

    What about convexity?

    How do you account for 24 million new people in the US in one year?

    If the total global economy is about 32 trillion annualized, and there are about 6.5 billion people in this world, then the average person is valued at about $5000 per year, or the equivalent to 1 futures contract annualized.

    In order to keep the money flow cycle in check, the equivalent of about 200 contracts per second have to be traded to account for the 6.5 billion people in a 32 trillion dollar economy.

    If whitster is right, and all indexes are coupled, and 200 buy and sell orders per second are matched up, then in my view...

    extreme capitalism = communism.

    So no one should ever have any bills to pay, and we should all be living on free air.
     
    #141     Feb 26, 2006
  2. it's not a zero sum game, period. quit worrying about it.

    the guy who grows corn sells it via futures. the guy who buys his contract sells it higher. the guy who bought it the third time takes delivery and eats it.

    all made money or derived value.

    financial futures reflect income from interest rates.

    the value of productive wealth monetized and traded.
     
    #142     Feb 26, 2006
  3. The futures market is a zero-sum game by definition. It has nothing to do with whether prices are going up or down, or whether value is being created in the economy. I cannot buy a futures contract unless someone else goes short. Therefore, if I make X dollars, the short loses X dollars. If I lose X dollars, the short makes X dollars.

    In fact, if you only buy futures, you should theoretically LOSE the risk free rate (assuming no dividends on the underlying, no cost of carry, etc. etc.), and the counterparty would make the same amount that you lost.
     
    #143     Feb 26, 2006
  4. By definition, the futures market is a non-zero sum game. To conclude otherwise is to believe all participants have similar goals for that market. They do not, as shown by aPismoClam in his example.
     
    #144     Feb 26, 2006
  5. #145     Feb 26, 2006
  6. landboy

    landboy

    IN more formal terms, "Opportunity cost"
     
    #146     Feb 26, 2006
  7. #147     Feb 26, 2006
  8. Because he sold corn at a price below the prevailing market price. He lost money on the futures contract. It doesn't matter if he made money by growing corn. HE LOST MONEY ON THE FUTURES CONTRACT, and it was the same amount that the other traders made cumulatively.
     
    #148     Feb 26, 2006
  9. No, he did not.

    For example, he may have agreed to sell his corn for $50k, and entered a contract to delivery his corn at a future date for that amount (a futures contract). At the agreed upon delivery date, he made physical delivery to the contract holder and received his $50k.

    If he had chosen instead to accept the prevailing market rate at the time of delivery, he may have received $60k. The profit pontential he surrendered, however, is not a loss.
     
    #149     Feb 26, 2006
  10. You didn't like my first two links? Fine. Here is another:


    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=zero-sum game

    "zero-sum game
    A situation in which one person's gain must be matched by another person's loss. Without considering taxes and transaction costs, many types of investing, such as options and futures, are examples of zero-sum games."


    Since we're talking about corn, here's something from the CBOT.

    http://www.cbot.com/cbot/docs/56449.pdf

    Look at the 3rd page:

    "In mathematical terms, futures trading is a zero sum game."

    This horse is dead. Can we please stop beating it?
     
    #150     Feb 26, 2006