Zen and The Art of Trading

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by martys, Sep 16, 2004.

  1. Everest


    Hi Martys

    thanks for the reply.

    I'll try that.

    Has the self hypnosis helped - undoubtedly. It's really useful for all sorts of things, from goal setting to getting the kids to bed (hypnotising them not me!)

    It's just given me a terrific sense of calm, which I am sure you will appreciate makes trading easier. I alos use it to constantly sharpen my skill sets and also just be more aware. I love removing perceptual filters, which makes a huge difference. It has other amazing uses as well. For examplw when I am in the gym, I really push my CV workout. Really hard. But I have trained myself to 'speed' time up, so the 30 minutes of agony feels like it's over in 10. I guess if I was really cool I could get it to feel like 1 minute, but hey, a little pain never hurt anyone.

    And if i was really really cool, maybe i could make the pain seem like serious sexual pleasure, but that would worry the wife. And me actually!

    Be good
    #41     Sep 20, 2004
  2. I read "Zen and the Art of Poker" a few years ago and quite enjoyed it. It does indeed have general application to trading, as I had posted in another, unrelated thread some months ago.

    I am neither a poker player nor a Zen enthusiast. You do not need to be either to benefit from this little book as it relates to your trading. Neither poker nor Zen have exclusive ownership of these general principles. The concrete, common sense advice is useful whether you choose to meditate or not. Therefore, I think that the prior posts in this thread that touched on meditation are somewhat beside the point as it relates to the practical application of the principles in this book.

    In any event, if you also want the quickest path to beneficial meditation, you should consider Herbert Benson's "The Relaxation Response." This no-nonsense ground-breaking little book, written about a generation ago, was the mainstream medical community's first foray into the mind-body connection. It cuts through the fat and mysticism and gets to the core of meditation rather quickly and effectively.
    #42     Sep 20, 2004
  3. Yes, the book is really about practical poker rules and it is going to be tricky to combine trading and meditation anyway. I think all the posts about meditation are just for the sake of interests in meditation. But I do found the mindsets required are similar in both trading and meditation. We have a tendency to tamper the natural course of events because we start off with some out-of-placed expectations. This leads to more chaos in our results. After an event, our mental feedbacks tend to build-up and reinforce these out-of-placed expectations. For example, I have a good meditation session and I would expect I would continue to have good meditation next time. But my expectation deviates from the experiences of how things work. Second example, because of some preconceived notions of what good meditation should be such as preferring stillness, I might try to stop thoughts but thoughts are mere natural display and expressions of the mind no matter how good or how dirty and the effort is going to be futile.

    One of my teachers suggested that he is trying to attain Enlightenment effortlessly and maybe it will just work. I am trying to see if I can achieve better trading results with less tampering and extraneous efforts... :confused:
    #43     Sep 20, 2004
  4. Sounds dangerously powerful. If I put myself into relaxation state, and going thru a script of auto-suggestions. Would that count as self-hypnosis? What are the proper procedures? What are the key elements to make it work? Thanks.
    #44     Sep 20, 2004
  5. mogul


    could you elaborate on how you trained to achieve this?

    very inspiring post!
    #45     Sep 20, 2004

  6. http://tinyurl.com/42rml
    #46     Sep 20, 2004
  7. I do believe in the 80/20 rule and even more so I believe in addressing the problems in the most direct way but in your opinions what does the core 20% comprise of in trading? Thanks.
    #47     Sep 20, 2004
  8. Everest


    Any formn of trance is merely an altered state. The question is, when you relax deeply are you able to access the unconscious.

    Once you are in a trance, it is difficult to auto suggest, as you shouldn't really function like that.

    Here is one routine I used at the beggining.

    By the way, the self hypnosis bit is courtest of Milton Erikkson's wife - Milton himself thought the model very elegant and simple - I was taught it by Dr Richard Bandler (now there is a mind).

    The whole basis is turn ones attention and focus internally.


    relax in to a chair or bed, whatever makes you comfortable.

    I then make the suggestions and changes I would like to see. I ask my unconcious to help me with, where it feels it is appropriate, and I also thank it in advance for it's help.

    I also say how long i would like to be in a trance, and describe how i would like to feel when i come out. I repeat to myself that if while i am in a trance anything requires my urgent attention, like the house is on fire, then i will be fully alert and in a full state to deal with the problem.

    Then, i say to myslef;

    now i am sitting here, i can see ( whatever I can see)

    then i sya it again, seeing something else.

    then again with some thing else.

    note - i don't move my eyes or change the focus, its just what i am aware of

    then I say

    now i am sitting here, i can hear .........

    again (with something else - you get the picture)



    now i am sitting here, i can feel ( my heart beating, for exampel)



    by this time my eyes have normally closed

    then i go back to the top,

    now i am sitting here i can see .....and at this point it's an internal image


    then hear


    then feel


    (the feelings at this point are normally things associated with the vision - ie i can feel the sun on back warmimng me right through, or the sand inbetween my toes

    then see

    then hear

    then feel

    and by then i am normally off with the fairies. generally i don't get that far. now it's anchored

    the more practiced you get, the easier it gets, the faster it works, the better the results

    give it a whizz. clearly don't do it when you are attempting to do anything other than be very relaxed in an eye shut situation. ie best not try whilst driving or whatnot

    happy blankness to you!
    #48     Sep 21, 2004
  9. Everest


    I did a course with a guy called Dr Richard Bandler and Paul Mckenna.

    I should emphasis that this taught me how to do it on myself, and indeed others, but I am in no way a practitioner, nor do I atttempt to be. sure I put friends in to a trance, some times make them bark like dogs and cock thier legs on the table or think they are naked at a dinner party, but it's all in the name of entertainment when its with others. A true hypnotist would find this distastful and me shallow.

    as for doing it to myslef, that would be very different.

    Once i put myself into a trance where i wqanted to try and feel like Churchill. It was amazing, I tell you. It waas as if i was truly delivering his speaches. a few hours later, the friends i was with noticed i was still walking around as though i had a cigar in my fingers, long after the experience was over.

    i love it!
    #49     Sep 21, 2004

  10. profit distribution, for one...
    #50     Sep 21, 2004