You Can't Trade Without A College Degree!!

Big Money · Jan 11, 2008

My bad Youngtrader. I guess I lost track of your post in the menagerie of the 57 pages. Good luck to you young man.

BM

I-Deviant · Jan 11, 2008

Quote from ctarmor-et:

I am in my early 40s and I have succeeded in my career as a developer/technologist by focusing on Microsoft Technologies for 20yrs now. I have done all of this without a college degree. I have a family, 2 kids and pull income north of 250k/yr from my financial job in NYC. I have built one of the top notch FI research tools on the market (cannot name it). Currently working with equity traders now. I have done all of this coming from a welfare environment until I was about 13yrs old.

With all that success I still think finishing college would of many more doors to many more opportunities. I have spent much of my career keeping up and self-teaching myself. Probably 50% of my time I would of saved if I finished college in the first place.

Even with all my personal success I am still thinking about someday âfinishingâ college. Ironically my kids are 3 & 6 yrs old and they already have about 40k on their college fund. I guess I want them to have the opportunity I did not have.

Iâll be going into trading this year. A college degree is stopping me from joining a institutional firm as a trader. So I am forced to go as a day-trader. It would have been much easier with a college degree. My success to make my fortune will depend of all my self-education and experiences during my career. Iâll be one of those traders that can built their own tools to analyze and monitor the markets.

Dedication, discipline and passion are necessary to be successful and a college degree is not required. It would definitely help out and make it easier on your endeavors if you are somewhat educated on the social and professional fronts.

So if you have the chance to get a college degree, DO SO!
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Thanks for this post, I am with you there. Matter of fact, my best friend who is 25 went straight out of the military at 21 after serving his 4.....got his Microsoft Certs (don\'t ask me to list them, I have no idea-but I do know two are the MCSE and MCSA)

He busted his ass and the GI Bill paid for him to take the tests.....he just moved down to South Florida as the head of the IT dept for a university.

Not bad, considering he doesn\'t have a degree.

I-Deviant · Jan 11, 2008

Quote from Big Money:

Giles117

You make some very good points. And I agree with most of what you say. Youâre right I was speaking about some of my friends, admittedly a small sample. Hey, I donât feel sorry for them either. They are diversifying assets into other areas but are certainly not financially independent at this point. But life is a little more complicated than âalternate areas of enlightenmentâ and they donât have the desire to make things happen. You are right that is a weakness in their mindsets that college probably wonât cure. The type of financial savvy you mention is most certainly NOT taught in school period, either college or otherwise. The fact you say you learned about saving and planning for your future I assume was learned on you own because of your drive to learn and start businesses, not from any class or instruction you had in high school. If it was in high school then that is great but I am sure you would agree that is the exception and not the rule. I am also sure that wisdom was, in hindsight, one of the most important money lessons you learned. The purpose of said savings to cushion the inevitable career changes as you say is a point that cannot be said enough and I hope the younger members of ET remember that. I am glad you were taught right at home, the value of that is hard to estimate. But I would argue that a college grad is better prepared to learn those money skills on their own if they are not taught either at home or from friends in the know. I guess we can agree to disagree. But your opinion is certainly no less valid than mine. It is up to the other readers to make up their own mind.

You are obviously driven by the desire you speak of and on the whole are probably at the level of financial savvy you talk about and I commend you for it. But I am sure you agree that most of those who end up not going to college end up much worse off than you on the whole. They just donât have your drive. Coming from OLD money or knowing those coming from OLD money is certainly the best way to learn what really matters financially speaking. As long as they learn it somewhere, the country will be better for it. The problem is they donât. And if I have to have someone around me who isnât financially savvy, I chose the college grad because IN general they will make more money and are not as close to the financial redline. How many people do you know of who are one car breakdown from not being able to pay the bills? How do they catch up? They donât make enough to.

I could not agree more with you regarding the kids some schools turn out. A lot are arrogant and think the world owes them. They mostly donât know much, let alone how to think. I donât know what business you are in but everyone who is young today in general lacks the passion you speak of. But they are much more prepared than those that didnât go to college. In my experience they are much worse IN general. You mention complaining how much effort it takes you and your company to train the arrogant and clueless kids you are hiring coming out of these schools. But what you are saying is that you are hiring these âless than greatâ college grads over your alternative: the non-college grad who would take even more work to make into a competent employee. And there is the rub. You are taking the lesser of the two evils. As bad as those new college grads are, the non-grads are worse in expecting the world to roll over and make things happen for them. Otherwise you would hire them instead.

Before escaping the rat race I worked for a very large mortgage servicer and of the 65 or so in my department, 5 had degrees. The expectations the non-grads expected was amazing to me. And donât even think about asking them to do anything outside of their tiny box of knowledge, even if it was their job. None cared about how anything was interrelated as long as it didnât affect them. The general incompetence in general business is mind-boggling in my experience. That is only MY experience. Your experience may vary. As I said before, you do not have to have a degree to be a successful trader for your own account. But I would certainly rather have it than not.

It sounds like you are in control of your world and company and I hope you enjoy continued success Giles117.

BM
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I see where you\'re coming from and totally respect that viewpoint. Thanks for being open minded about it.

giles117 · Jan 11, 2008

Quote from Big Money:

But I would argue that a college grad is better prepared to learn those money skills on their own if they are not taught either at home or from friends in the know. I guess we can agree to disagree. But your opinion is certainly no less valid than mine. It is up to the other readers to make up their own mind.

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I disagree as the MAJORITY of college grads are in debt up to their EYEBALLS!!!!! So the money skills I see they have learned are CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME!!!

It's easy to have that mindset when you know in 2 weeks another check is walking through the door.

No, we can never agree to disagree. That is one of the most MORONICAL statements ever unleashed on the learned few.

I have my opinion and you have yours. There may be points we agree on and thats great. Perhaps the other readers can glean these longwinded posts of ours and perfect their path..

But in the end all Opinions are like Assholes. Everybody has one and most of them stink.. Including mine. LOL... We know about opinions and the market. LOL...

Quote from Big Money:

But what you are saying is that you are hiring these âless than greatâ college grads over your alternative: the non-college grad who would take even more work to make into a competent employee.

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I am sorry I gave you that impression. Truth is I scour the young who are hungry and take them under my wing in an apprenticeship... I avoid the college dummies. They cost to much to train and when they take their arrogant, I know everything tails out of my company I have lost the investment. However the other ones Generally have a Loyalty ethic that is hard to find....

Quote from Big Money:

The general incompetence in general business is mind-boggling in my experience. That is only MY experience. Your experience may vary. As I said before, you do not have to have a degree to be a successful trader for your own account. But I would certainly rather have it than not.

It sounds like you are in control of your world and company and I hope you enjoy continued success Giles117.

BM
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We agree on the level of ineptitude.... LOL. Dumb and DUmber... and Lazy...

Thanks for the compliment. It took losing everything once to grow me up. LOL.

Big Money · Jan 11, 2008

Giles my good man,

Yourâre right that the majority of college grads are in debt, but respectfully, so are most of the non grads. I happen to be one with no credit card debt but that is pretty rare these days among almost everyone. I have no income from a JOB either. I have some investments that throw off cash and I trade so I know what it is like not to have a paycheck. It is not for everyone but it is best for me and apparently you too.

I will try to work on my Moronical statements in the future (is that a word? KIDDING). I kind of figured you would say you donât hire the college dummies as you call them as was implied before and it is commendable to hire the young who are hungry. We all should do more of that. Loyalty is hard to find anywhere but it seems you have solved that problem as well.

I am glad you have found a way of finding and retaining employees that works for you. And I hate the arrogant punks as much as you do. I wouldnât hire them either. They give the rest of us a bad rap with many people.

Well I think we have just about beat this horse for all it is worth. What doesnât kill us makes us stronger, right. Good luck to all.

BM

piezoe · Jan 12, 2008

Quote from giles117:

But where is it etched in stone that college is the only way of getting a good education..
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I agree completely. There are other ways. I know many financially successful people. Many are very bright. Some are even interesting. Not many are well educated. I assume they failed to take advantage of either college or those "other ways".

giles117 · Jan 12, 2008

Quote from Big Money:

Giles my good man,

Yourâre right that the majority of college grads are in debt, but respectfully, so are most of the non grads. I happen to be one with no credit card debt but that is pretty rare these days among almost everyone. I have no income from a JOB either. I have some investments that throw off cash and I trade so I know what it is like not to have a paycheck. It is not for everyone but it is best for me and apparently you too.

I will try to work on my Moronical statements in the future (is that a word? KIDDING). I kind of figured you would say you donât hire the college dummies as you call them as was implied before and it is commendable to hire the young who are hungry. We all should do more of that. Loyalty is hard to find anywhere but it seems you have solved that problem as well.

I am glad you have found a way of finding and retaining employees that works for you. And I hate the arrogant punks as much as you do. I wouldnât hire them either. They give the rest of us a bad rap with many people.

Well I think we have just about beat this horse for all it is worth. What doesnât kill us makes us stronger, right. Good luck to all.

BM
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LOL. Dont get it twisted... I just wanted what I wanted so bad I was willing to risk everything for it. Most people are too scared to move... Sort of like analysis paralysis.... When I get timid, I remind myself... Do it or die. Which is better. I like living so I do it.

Or as the Bible says... "I set before you life and death, choose life that you may live."

I had a great example. My Old Pastor. HE took his family to Oklahoma, went through Bible school. Came back home and started a church unlike anything that had been seen before in our area. He paved his own way in spite of everything... I watch him grow from 50 members to 21,000. Not begging for money, but teaching the people what's actually in the Bible and not his opinions. THANK GOD!!!!

Whenever I wanted to quit, I remember when he wanted to quit. 6 years into his ministry with 3500 members he was ready to chuck it all.

He stuck it out and by the time I left the ministry he was 21K strong. He pursued his dream in spite of ALL the opposition. He never quit, and thats the key to my little bit of success.

I wont quit till the day I die. Retirement is for lazy people. How can you truly RETIRE... the mere definition of the word is to QUIT, or DIE...

I have no love for either of those concepts...

I Choose Life, that I may live.

rosy2 · Jan 12, 2008

Quote from giles117:

I am sorry I gave you that impression. Truth is I scour the young who are hungry and take them under my wing in an apprenticeship... I avoid the college dummies. They cost to much to train and when they take their arrogant, I know everything tails out of my company I have lost the investment. However the other ones Generally have a Loyalty ethic that is hard to find....

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giles,
the non-college grads are loyal for a reason. they have no other choice. they cant get a job anywhere else.

giles117 · Jan 12, 2008

Quote from rosy2:

giles,
the non-college grads are loyal for a reason. they have no other choice. they cant get a job anywhere else.
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Just one opinion.... They are loyal because I invested in them... Not because they cant get a job anywhere else. I encourage them. when they reach a certain point to go forth and conquer the world, and they still remain loyal...

I can all them on a minutes notice and they'll be there.

Understand I only have 1099 staff, no W-2 staff. No need. Not a job... I just tell them what I need and they knock it out.

Reaver · Jan 12, 2008

Quote from rosy2:

giles,
the non-college grads are loyal for a reason. they have no other choice. they cant get a job anywhere else.
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That's the most moronic statement I've seen since BullznBearz was here on ET. Yeah even worse than Timbo's usual pearls of wisdom.

What a toolshed.

Maybe it's because they are decent people or something crazy like that, even though they don't have a degree. Who'da thunk it? I guess college instills morals, virtues and convictions in otherwise dishonest people. Those that don't go to college are stuck being untrustworthy and unloyal. That must be the answer. Us poor unwashed bastards.