LMAO. Another clueless poster. But of course we know @gwb-trading is biases pro Israel's policies, but by attacking me that's @gwb-trading's defense.
Let's see.... how many times have you claimed I am Jewish despite being told multiple times I am not. Here is a test -- Provide a brief summary of Islam as a militant religious movement which has violently conquered people across the face of the earth. Let's see if you can actually include Islam in your regular condemnation of religions you spew all over ET forums.
You’re misunderstanding my point. Please do not conflate Islam with any other religion, past or present. Islam stands apart—distinct and in a class of its own. If you do not agree with that, you are lying and willfully ignorant, playing possum, or completely ignorant of Islam and other religions. Islam is not like Hinduism Islam is not like Christianity Islam is not like Judaism Islam is not like Sikhism Islam is not like Jainism Islam is not like Taoism Islam is not like Confucianism Islam is not like Buddhism Islam is not like Scientology
@themickey If Israel were to give Hamas/Palestine all of the land besides one square mile in which Jews could not leave this one square mile, the muslims will still attack and want to kill all of the jews. If you are honest, you know that it's true. The Muslims will do that because they are Muslim.
@themickey What Islamic finance principles say about prohibiting riba (interest), especially regarding how it affects purchasing homes, cars, or starting businesses. What mainstream economics says about credit constraints—specifically, whether lack of financing leads to multi-year saving schedules and lowers living standards. Whether Islamic finance alternatives like Murabaha, Ijara, or diminishing Musharakah successfully address these issues, or if gaps remain compared to traditional interest-bearing finance. Islamic Riba Prohibition, Credit Constraints, and Islamic Financing Alternatives 1. Islamic Teachings on Riba (Interest) and Personal Finance In Islamic law (Shari’ah), paying or charging interest (riba) on loans is strictly forbidden. This prohibition stems from the view that interest-based lending is exploitative and unjustly favors the lender (Islamic business finance: The full guide | Swoop US). The Qur’an and Hadith condemn riba, so virtually all Islamic scholars agree that Muslims must avoid interest-bearing transactions. In practice this means a Muslim who is devoutly observing Shari’ah will not take a conventional loan that charges interest – whether for a home mortgage, car financing, or a business loan (Alternative financing: Issues and opportunities for lenders and interest-averse populations | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis). Islam permits trade and profit-sharing, but “money-from-money” income via interest is haram (forbidden) (Working With Islamic Finance) (Alternative financing: Issues and opportunities for lenders and interest-averse populations | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis). As a result, Muslim families often face a dilemma: how to finance big purchases or investments without violating their faith. This religious restriction has direct impacts on personal financial decisions. For example, a Muslim household that needs a home or vehicle cannot simply take out a standard bank loan if they wish to remain Shari’ah-compliant. They may choose to delay or forgo purchases, or seek special financing arrangements. In countries with no Islamic banking options, this can significantly limit financial choices. A study in Norway found that the lack of interest-free housing finance made homeownership essentially unattainable for parts of the Muslim minority who refuse interest – even in a society where owning a home is key to integration (Religious norms and homeownership among Norwegian Muslim women – Peace Research Institute Oslo (PRIO)). Similarly, research in Finland on Muslim entrepreneurs notes that those who rejected interest-based bank loans had to rely on alternative strategies (personal savings, loans from family, rotating credit circles, etc.) to fund homes or businesses. In the United States and Europe, many observant Muslims have historically avoided conventional mortgages and car loans due to the riba ban (Alternative financing: Issues and opportunities for lenders and interest-averse populations | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis). This has spurred demand for “halal” financing products that comply with Islamic rules. In response, a number of banks and credit unions have started offering Shariah-compliant financing for homes and even automobiles, and local lenders report growing demand for small-business financing that avoids interest (Introduction to Islamic Finance). In short, Islamic teachings against riba heavily influence financial behavior – devout individuals will go to great lengths (e.g. years of saving or using informal loans) to avoid interest, which affects how they buy houses, cars or launch businesses. 2. Credit Constraints and Household Savings Behavior Modern economics provides strong evidence that limited access to credit forces households to delay major purchases and engage in multi-year savings, often lowering their immediate standard of living. In a well-functioning credit market, families can borrow against future income to buy homes, vehicles, or other “lumpy” big-ticket goods now and repay over time. This credit access smooths consumption over the life cycle. Empirical studies show that when household credit is readily available, saving rates tend to fall and consumption rises – meaning people don’t need to stockpile cash for years before buying something (Consumers and the Economy, Part I: Household Credit and Personal Saving - San Francisco Fed). For instance, a Federal Reserve analysis found that changes in consumer credit availability explained about 90% of the fluctuation in U.S. personal saving rates over decades (Consumers and the Economy, Part I: Household Credit and Personal Saving - San Francisco Fed) (Consumers and the Economy, Part I: Household Credit and Personal Saving - San Francisco Fed). Greater credit access correlates with lower precautionary savings and higher spending, whereas when credit tightens, households must save more and spend less (Consumers and the Economy, Part I: Household Credit and Personal Saving - San Francisco Fed). In the mid-2000s, easy credit and low interest led many Americans to borrow and spend, allowing consumption to outpace income and boosting living standards (temporarily) (Consumers and the Economy, Part I: Household Credit and Personal Saving - San Francisco Fed). Conversely, during the financial crisis when loans became harder to get, families sharply increased savings (deleveraging) and cut back consumption, which “acted as a drag on consumer spending and the economy” (Consumers and the Economy, Part I: Household Credit and Personal Saving - San Francisco Fed). The basic point is that if you cannot borrow, you generally must defer expenditures until you’ve accumulated enough savings, often sacrificing welfare in the interim. There is ample evidence of households resorting to slow accumulation or informal mechanisms when formal credit is unavailable. In many developing countries, people join rotating savings and credit associations (ROSCAs) precisely to finance large purchases – members contribute regularly to a fund so that each member gets a turn receiving a lump sum to buy a durable good (Rotating Saving Groups – Collaborative Finance). This behavior aligns with economic theories: without bank credit, households use communal savings plans as a substitute to make major purchases (a classic example being saving up for appliances or a vehicle via a ROSCA) (Rotating Saving Groups – Collaborative Finance). Likewise, as mentioned earlier, Muslim entrepreneurs who refuse interest often end up depending on personal savings over many years, interest-free loans from relatives, or community credit pools to gather the capital needed for a house or business. Such multi-year saving periods delay the benefits of homeownership or business investment – years during which families might be renting crowded apartments or unable to expand a business for lack of funds. Mainstream development research also links credit constraints to persistent poverty: for instance, lacking access to loans and credit is cited as a key reason why poor households in developing countries struggle to invest in home improvements, education, or entrepreneurship, thus trapping them in lower living standards (Access to credit: The silent issue hampering growth and development in emerging economies | World Economic Forum) (Access to credit: The silent issue hampering growth and development in emerging economies | World Economic Forum). The World Economic Forum notes that access to credit is essential for individuals to pursue long-term goals, and when people are “cut off from traditional lines of credit” it “hinders the ability to plan for long-term goals and unexpected emergencies.” (Access to credit: The silent issue hampering growth and development in emerging economies | World Economic Forum) In sum, when households face credit constraints, they often must save for many years to afford big expenses, during which time their quality of life may be lower (for example, delaying home ownership, foregoing a car needed for better jobs, or not investing in a business). This consensus is backed by both theoretical models and empirical data: credit helps smooth and improve consumption, whereas lack of credit tends to postpone consumption and can reduce welfare (Consumers and the Economy, Part I: Household Credit and Personal Saving - San Francisco Fed) (Access to credit: The silent issue hampering growth and development in emerging economies | World Economic Forum). 3. Effectiveness of Islamic Financing Alternatives To address the riba prohibition while still providing needed credit, the Islamic finance sector has developed several alternative financing products. The most common instruments include Murabaha (cost-plus sale contracts), Ijara (leasing arrangements), and diminishing Musharakah (diminishing partnership). These are structured to avoid explicit interest charges. For example, in a Murabaha home purchase, instead of lending money with interest, an Islamic bank buys the property and immediately sells it to the client at a marked-up price, with payment in installments over time (Introduction to Islamic Finance). The price markup (the bank’s profit) is fixed upfront, taking the place of interest – the customer effectively pays extra for the deferred payment, but it’s framed as a sale profit, not interest (Introduction to Islamic Finance). Ijara is a lease-to-own model: the bank (lessor) buys the asset (house or car) and leases it to the client for a period; a portion of each payment is rent and the rest builds equity, and finally the asset is transferred to the client at the end (Working With Islamic Finance) (Working With Islamic Finance). Diminishing Musharakah is a partnership where bank and buyer jointly purchase an asset (e.g. the bank puts up 80%, the client 20%); the client then gradually buys out the bank’s share over time while also paying rent for the portion still owned by the bank (Islamic business finance: The full guide | Swoop US). All three methods result in the customer acquiring the home/car/business equipment without ever paying “interest” on a loan – instead they pay a combination of asset purchase installments plus rent or profit margin. In theory, these products allow Muslim consumers to access credit for large purchases in a Shariah-compliant way, thereby solving the religious barrier to credit. The question is whether these Islamic financing modes truly solve the issue of credit access as effectively as conventional interest-based loans. In terms of principle, they do broaden access – many people who would otherwise avoid loans can finance homes or businesses thanks to such products. Indeed, the growth of Islamic finance in the past few decades has enabled thousands of Muslim families to buy houses or cars in places like the UK, US, and Malaysia without violating their beliefs. However, research and market data indicate that Islamic products often still have gaps in affordability, efficiency, and accessibility compared to standard loans. One issue is cost: Sharia-compliant financing is frequently equal or higher in cost to the equivalent interest-based loan. The profit or rent payments are usually benchmarked to conventional interest rates (for competitiveness), and additional fees may apply due to the more complex transaction structures. For instance, in the UK halal mortgage market, Islamic home purchase plans have carried profit rates around 8–9%, versus ~6% interest on a standard mortgage, translating into thousands of pounds more paid over the life of the financing (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian). A 2023 report in The Guardian noted that Muslims seeking Sharia-compliant home loans “face the prospect of paying much higher rates” (e.g. ~9%) than conventional borrowers (~6%), and this premium can add thousands of extra pounds to the total cost (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian). Moreover, Islamic banks often require larger down payments, which can put loans out of reach for some middle-class buyers. For example, the main provider of Islamic mortgages in the UK requires at least 25% deposit, meaning a buyer must have a far bigger savings upfront than many conventional loans which allow 10% or less down (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian). On a £320,000 property, that Sharia bank’s minimum £80,000 deposit is a significant hurdle (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian). These stricter terms (partly reflecting that the bank shares more risk) can leave a gap in accessibility – not all who need Islamic financing can afford it, even if they could have qualified for a regular loan with a smaller deposit (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian) (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian). As a result, some observant Muslims still end up forgoing purchases or reluctantly taking conventional loans despite religious misgivings (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian). Another concern is efficiency and complexity. Islamic financing contracts tend to be more legally and operationally complex than a straightforward interest loan. To comply with Shari’ah, transactions often involve multiple steps or parties – essentially mimicking a conventional loan through a series of asset trades or leases. The IMF observes that there is a “tendency to structure transactions so that Islamic finance contracts mimic conventional debt contracts,” but doing so “results in a complex layering of transactions and involvement of third parties” to ensure no direct interest is charged (Islamic Finance: Opportunities, Challenges, and Policy Options; by Alfred Kammer, Mohamed Norat, Marco Piñón, Ananthakrishnan Prasad, Christopher Towe, Zeine Zeidane, and an IMF Staff Team; IMF Staff Discussion Notes No. SDN/15/05; April 6, 2015.). For example, a relatively simple Murabaha can be executed as described above (bank buys asset, then sells to client), but more elaborate structures like Tawarruq involve the bank and client making a series of commodity purchases and sales to generate the needed cash for a purchase in an Islamically acceptable way (Islamic Finance: Opportunities, Challenges, and Policy Options; by Alfred Kammer, Mohamed Norat, Marco Piñón, Ananthakrishnan Prasad, Christopher Towe, Zeine Zeidane, and an IMF Staff Team; IMF Staff Discussion Notes No. SDN/15/05; April 6, 2015.) (Islamic Finance: Opportunities, Challenges, and Policy Options; by Alfred Kammer, Mohamed Norat, Marco Piñón, Ananthakrishnan Prasad, Christopher Towe, Zeine Zeidane, and an IMF Staff Team; IMF Staff Discussion Notes No. SDN/15/05; April 6, 2015.). The IMF case study showed a Shariah-compliant home financing that required multiple ownership transfers and contracts (with even a commodity trade in the middle) to replicate what a single conventional loan would do, all to avoid formal interest (Islamic Finance: Opportunities, Challenges, and Policy Options; by Alfred Kammer, Mohamed Norat, Marco Piñón, Ananthakrishnan Prasad, Christopher Towe, Zeine Zeidane, and an IMF Staff Team; IMF Staff Discussion Notes No. SDN/15/05; April 6, 2015.) (Islamic Finance: Opportunities, Challenges, and Policy Options; by Alfred Kammer, Mohamed Norat, Marco Piñón, Ananthakrishnan Prasad, Christopher Towe, Zeine Zeidane, and an IMF Staff Team; IMF Staff Discussion Notes No. SDN/15/05; April 6, 2015.). This added complexity can increase administrative costs, legal fees, and processing time. Indeed, Muslim homebuyers in the UK have reported that Sharia-compliant deals can slow down transactions – some sellers even back out because they find the arrangements unusual or cumbersome (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian) (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian). Thus, on an efficiency front, Islamic financing may be less streamlined, potentially making it somewhat less “accessible” in practical terms (fewer providers, longer processing, niche market). Finally, the overall availability (geographical reach) of Islamic finance remains limited, which leaves many credit needs unmet. Islamic financing is well-established in certain Muslim-majority countries and a few Western financial hubs, but it has not penetrated all markets. S&P Global Ratings notes that the industry’s expansion beyond its traditional regions has been slow, partly because Islamic products are still less competitive and more complex than conventional products, hampering their broader adoption (Islamic Finance 2022-2023: Same Constraints, New Opportunities | S&P Global Ratings). The global distribution of Islamic finance assets is concentrated in the Gulf states and Malaysia; in non-Muslim majority countries, offerings are improving but still relatively scarce. As of 2022, analysts stated that “less competitive Islamic finance products and complexity…are still holding back expansion into new markets.” (Islamic Finance 2022-2023: Same Constraints, New Opportunities | S&P Global Ratings) In practice, this means a Muslim in, say, Norway or rural India might simply have no Shariah-compliant lender available. Even where Islamic windows exist in conventional banks, they might cater only to certain types of financing (often home mortgages) and not small personal loans or extensive business credit lines for startups. The scale issue also matters: some community-based Islamic financing programs have struggled to grow because they rely on limited capital. The U.S. Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis found that small local Islamic loan programs worked for a handful of transactions, “however, these programs run into difficulty when the size or number of loans demanded exceeds the capital available.” (Alternative financing: Issues and opportunities for lenders and interest-averse populations | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis) Scaling up requires support from larger financial institutions or governments to meet community demand. In summary, Islamic financing alternatives do alleviate the religious credit constraint for many people, but they have not entirely eliminated the practical gaps compared to conventional finance. These products succeed in providing Shari’ah-compliant credit – enabling home purchases, car financing, and business capital while respecting the ban on interest. This has been crucial for financial inclusion of observant Muslims: there is strong demand for such products and they have made homeownership and entrepreneurship possible for those who would otherwise abstain (Alternative financing: Issues and opportunities for lenders and interest-averse populations | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis). On the other hand, challenges remain. The cost to the borrower is often comparable or higher than an interest-based loan (so there’s no monetary “discount” for piety – in fact it may cost more (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian)), and higher upfront equity requirements can be a barrier (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian). The efficiency losses from more complicated deal structures can make Islamic financing less convenient and sometimes riskier or costlier for the lender, which can translate into narrower access or slower growth. And in terms of macro-level impact, Islamic finance is still a small fraction of global finance, so it hasn’t fully filled the credit gap for all who avoid interest. In some regions, devout Muslims still end up saving for years or relying on informal credit because suitable Islamic products aren’t accessible. Overall, while instruments like Murabaha, Ijara, and Musharakah provide a viable path to credit without riba, they partly solve the access issue but do not yet match conventional loans in affordability, efficiency or universal availability (Islamic Finance 2022-2023: Same Constraints, New Opportunities | S&P Global Ratings) (Islamic Finance: Opportunities, Challenges, and Policy Options; by Alfred Kammer, Mohamed Norat, Marco Piñón, Ananthakrishnan Prasad, Christopher Towe, Zeine Zeidane, and an IMF Staff Team; IMF Staff Discussion Notes No. SDN/15/05; April 6, 2015.). Continued innovation and support (e.g. standardization, government facilitation to reduce costs, fintech solutions) may shrink these gaps over time, but as of now there is still a noticeable trade-off for those seeking Shariah-compliant credit. Sources: Islamic finance principles and riba prohibition – Federal Reserve Bank of Boston (2006) (Introduction to Islamic Finance) (Introduction to Islamic Finance); Swoop Funding Islamic Finance Guide (Islamic business finance: The full guide | Swoop US). Impacts of riba ban on personal decisions – PRIO Journal of Ethnic & Migration Studies (2021) (Religious norms and homeownership among Norwegian Muslim women – Peace Research Institute Oslo (PRIO)); Martikainen & Brekke (2023) Finnish Muslim entrepreneurs study; Fed. Reserve Bank of Minneapolis (2002) (Alternative financing: Issues and opportunities for lenders and interest-averse populations | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis) (Introduction to Islamic Finance). Credit constraints and saving behavior – FRBSF Economic Letter (2011) (Consumers and the Economy, Part I: Household Credit and Personal Saving - San Francisco Fed) (Consumers and the Economy, Part I: Household Credit and Personal Saving - San Francisco Fed); World Economic Forum (2024) (Access to credit: The silent issue hampering growth and development in emerging economies | World Economic Forum); Collaborative Finance (ROSCAs) (Rotating Saving Groups – Collaborative Finance). Effectiveness of Islamic finance alternatives – The Guardian (Sept 2023) (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian) (Dilemma for Muslim homebuyers compelled to pay a high price for loans | Money | The Guardian); IMF Staff Discussion Paper (2015) (Islamic Finance: Opportunities, Challenges, and Policy Options; by Alfred Kammer, Mohamed Norat, Marco Piñón, Ananthakrishnan Prasad, Christopher Towe, Zeine Zeidane, and an IMF Staff Team; IMF Staff Discussion Notes No. SDN/15/05; April 6, 2015.) (Islamic Finance: Opportunities, Challenges, and Policy Options; by Alfred Kammer, Mohamed Norat, Marco Piñón, Ananthakrishnan Prasad, Christopher Towe, Zeine Zeidane, and an IMF Staff Team; IMF Staff Discussion Notes No. SDN/15/05; April 6, 2015.); S&P Global Ratings (2022) (Islamic Finance 2022-2023: Same Constraints, New Opportunities | S&P Global Ratings); Fed. Reserve Bank of Minneapolis (2002) (Alternative financing: Issues and opportunities for lenders and interest-averse populations | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis).
Below is a summary of when the first fully Shariah-compliant banks appeared (or did not) in each jurisdiction. What this means for economic competitiveness Longer credit-access gap Countries like Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Kuwait and Bahrain had Shariah-compliant financing from the late 1970s onward. By contrast, Oman only got its first Islamic bank in 2012, and Afghanistan in 2018. That’s 37–41 years during which observant Muslims in those markets had no halal mortgage, lease or business credit at all. Commercial real estate disadvantage In markets with established Islamic banks, Shariah-compliant real-estate finance still typically requires: Larger down-payments (often ≥ 25% vs. 10% on an interest mortgage), Higher profit-rate equivalents (e.g. 8–9% markup vs. 6% conventional interest), and Lower net returns (since rent or profit margins substitute for interest deductions). In frontier or late-entry markets, no Islamic real-estate finance meant devout buyers either saved cash for decades, rented indefinitely, or reluctantly took non-compliant conventional loans—undermining their ability to invest, expand businesses, or compete on pricing. Aggregate economic impact Delayed access to Shariah-compliant credit by years or decades can: Depress household wealth accumulation, as families defer home or asset purchases. Stifle small-business formation, since entrepreneurs lack compliant startup capital. Erode market competitiveness, especially in sectors like real estate, construction, and trade, where financing costs materially affect bids and returns. In sum, the later an economy introduced fully‐Shariah-compliant banking, the longer its credit-constrained Muslim population was at a structural disadvantage—fitting your hypothesis that an absolute riba ban, without viable Islamic alternatives until recently, built in an economic handicap for observant Muslims competing in global markets.
Hmmmmm, down the rabbit hole we go...... And "doh" to your theories plucked out your ass. Islam and Judaism share significant similarities due to their shared Abrahamic roots and monotheistic beliefs. Both religions believe in one God, and they share common figures like Abraham, Moses, and David. Furthermore, both have dietary laws and laws related to proper behavior. Similarities: Monotheism: Both religions strictly believe in one God. Shared Figures: Both acknowledge Abraham as a central figure and recognize other prophets like Moses and David. Sacred Texts: Both have sacred texts: the Hebrew Bible for Judaism and the Quran for Islam. Observances: Both have dietary laws (kosher and halal), regulations regarding proper behavior, and ritualistic practices. Jerusalem: Both religions regard Jerusalem as a holy city. Family Orientation: Both religions are traditionally considered family-oriented. Shared Vocabulary: Both Hebrew and Arabic, the foundational languages of Judaism and Islam, share some vocabulary. Reading Direction: Both write and read from right to left. Differences: Jesus: Judaism does not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, while Islam acknowledges him as a prophet, but not the divine son of God as Christians believe. Messiah: Judaism awaits the arrival of a Messiah, while Islam believes the Messiah has already come and will return. Interpretation of Scripture: Different interpretations of the Torah and the Quran lead to differing theological views. Temple: Judaism emphasizes the Temple in Jerusalem, while Islam has a more universal concept of worship.
For Israel to fuck off and stop interfering and shit stirring. This will NEVER HAPPEN! Why? Because Judaism being similar to christianity and because of the way their religion is structured, they are always right, they are never wrong. They claim God told them to take the land. As well Judaism and christianity have a similarity, their convoluted contradictory scripture is interpreted anyway you want to.