Don't get me wrong, though. I'd love to see the right environment for the businesses to come back to the US and for their to be better oversight but unfortunately businesses move around to where they can get the best deal. The compliance costs for an individual trader is miniscule relative to those a b/d has to deal with. I've seen it become and more burdensome and the entire industry suffers as a result of unnecessary licensing schemes and added transaction costs. Can you imagine what a firm signing on 50-100 traders a month has to deal with in terms of compliance? it's not normal. overseeing u4, u5, fingerprints, background checks, broker records, CRD, legal records and all of that stuff. This detracts a lot from the firms' primary responsibility, to oversee trading activities and protect against risk. Most of the regulations do not serve their purpose. It'd be nice to get opinion from others with a while of experience in the field but for now I'm going to stick with my guns that while SureTrader, TM Global, Nevis, IB & others do not have the same government oversight as US registered broker-dealers, that does not mean your $$ is not as safe In some instances, it may mean they have more ability to focus on their primary duties in the market and therefore their customers are further protected than those busy filling out paperwork. That should be history/reviews which determine the practices of the firm.
Slaughter, Note that neither claim they don't accept US traders. There is no law that can prohibit a foreign securities broker with foreign owners to not accept US business if they chose to. The US only has the ability scrutinize what goes on within its own borders. The IFSC, where the group is registered based out of Ireland and oversees registration for many European firms. The firms are intended for outside of the US clients, many of which exist in Europe. This is why I mentioned it. As far as WTS is concerned, there is a significant amount of Class A capital. The principals of WTS also have a FINRA b/d with SIPC insurance and a few overseas brokerages in other countries. THE CBSX does not permit overseas traders, which is why groups like SureTrader, Nevis, and TMGlobal exist. They are not intended for US clients, but the US regulators have no authority over citizens/businesses of other countries. They can't force retail firms to police every large account to make sure there isn't prop activity going on. Now, I don't defend every prop firm as you claim. I just don't attack firms/businesses that I am not familiar with. Their practices may or may not be legitimate. In this case, I am familiar with someone at TM and don't see the need for your scrutiny based on some type of reverse preemptive logic.
if a firm is us based or overseas the majority of traders only care about their money being safe the only hope for the trader is to connect with a us registered firm is primarily to keep from getting ripped off some traders just want access to the markets & will go with whatever firm they feel comfortable with based on reputation & financials your money is always at risk . the market will take it first before any prop firm rips you off
Couldn't have said it better. At this point the international firms are looking more attractive to people who want to join firms...I am fed up with this SEC bullshit. The fact of the matter is that most of these firms ask for around 5k of cash. They offer you with so many benefits that it's kind of hard to turn down with such a relatively low risk. With all of this SEC stuff in the air, it seems as if the risk is less with an international firm that is reputable and honest. If people worry that their 5k will go missing, then they probably shouldn't be trading in the first place. I feel like going international just to get OUT of all this regulation. Like someone said somewhere on these forums, the SEC is going to regulate themselves out of a job someday. And to the OP: I obtained some info after a few email inquires. TM Global is an offshore prop firm. They have head offices in Israel and they claim that they clear through LEK Securities (United Kingdom). They also referenced that they have a few Montreal operations. The guy never mentioned Belize to me... Hope that helps.
the problem is even if you only put up a few thousand with a overseas entity you still have to hope you get your profit payout let alone your deposit most us prop firms usually pay out 1 time per month which is not ideal for any trader any prop firm can fold & all the trader's gets screwed but the worse part is probably the feeling of being ripped off rather then the money you lose reputation is probably the best way to choose what prop firm to do business with
There are licensing schemes, 1-year lockup, monthly payouts, and lots of other overhead in US firms. Maybe in an ideal world, these protect customers. statistically speaking, the one year lockup means your $$ is at a greater risk. Especially if the international group is closely related to a US BD. Now they're going to try to push a financial transaction tax and an 80/20 split? There comes a point where the greed of these regulators has to go. I would rather have the ability to withdrawal my funds tomorrow than wait one year. You have to find a reputable firm run by people who have been around for a while. that's the trick. It's not big brother government that's going to regulate businesses to safety. Most of the times, the big corporations write regulations to hurt you and protect their economic interests, not the other way around. Keep in mind that the US only compromises one nation. There are hundred of other countries with brokerage oversight. You can generally get a good deal from a foreign broker and there are less restrictions on your account. No PDT. different margin requirements. etc. Competition exists all over the world. This seems to be something the US government fails to understand. My point with SureTrader and TM is that it's a shame the government is forcing business overseas. They only have jurisdiction over their own residents and will never be able to stop competition. Maybe for one small trader, the different is minuscule. You get a fancy license and get to list it as a job on your resume, but most investors really aren't concerned with that.
I trade with TM Global and I am happy. I dealt with Jayson and he is a cool guy and doing business with him is straightforward. He really knows a lot about trading and platforms and was able to troubleshoot an ongoing issue I had with the laser platform when I was with a WTS group so that's how I knew him. I had no idea he was at TM Global and I still contacted a few other firms and was promised more or less the same deal ranging from 0.004-.0055 and 95-99% depending on volume. No 1 year lockup with TM but something about a $300 penalty if I close my account within 2 months which is fine, I have gone days I lost more than that amount trading. I only do around 300-400k a month so I knew off the bat to expect on the higher end of that range which is normal. Jayson offered me .005 and 99% and told me when I up my volume to 750,000 my commission can be lowered and offer other incentives like no desk fees. I might switch to Turbo Tick for February which is like $70 including data. They offer payout twice a month but I will take some profit off the table on Wednesday (Feb 1). It won't be much, around $400 which is nice to pay off my basic spending needs. I am still new-ish to trading and this is my best month. I'll keep you posted if that goes smoothly but see no reason why it wouldn't. To the OP, Jayson was at WTS and was helpful, polite and knowledgeable. I just think that Jayson is trying hard to advance his career and reputation in the trading community. He answered my emails over the weekend and in the evenings from his blackberry. Other firms I had to wait until the next business day. Understandable, but Jayson earned points for this category especially given the fact I am still a small time trader and what I do in 1 month volume size is what others can easily do in a day or a few hours. He is a nice guy and wants to succeed in this business which is hard to do because there is just so much competition. Sad to say but if another firm comes along with a better deal I wouldn't hesitate to part ways with TM. I would give them the chance to match it obviously, but business is business. I would recommend contacting him for sure to see what he can offer. I don't know the whole structure Montreal phone, Israel address, nyc fax, Belize broker (first time i hear of this) but does it really matter. To some it does, but as long as someone answers my emails/skype/phone in a timely manner than I am OK with it.
Evotrader2 it's tough for traders to choose the right us registered b/d firms for a fair deal If you can't get paid by a firm what is the difference in how good a deal is or how often you can get paid out right ? if a trader can choose a overseas firm & your money disappears then what is the benefit of avoiding any lockup period & licensing your just asking for trouble with these firms that pop up & can rippoff everyone off & their is nothing you can do about it . that is jumping into shark infested waters no one likes all the regulatory bs but if you want leverage you have to jump thru hoops to get it What legit firms are overseas & have a good reputation that a trader could consider ?
Thanks guys for international groups I like Winterflood securities, IBWorldwide, TM Global, VTrader and there are others in the UK and other parts of Europe. Most offer a lot more products than just US equities. In fact, US equities are usually one of the many markets the overseas firms can provide access to. in the US, we seem to have a problem offering more products/services because the mafia regulators say you either need to pay up or be shut down ;-) My great uncle had a similar problem in NYC during the 40's and 50's. He ran a store and every Friday the mob would come in for their "protection money" which meant either you paid up or you were out of business. My point being that other firms regulated under the FSA or IFSC don't deal with any of the useless BS regulations. I know Don has to be PC because he is representing his firm without anonymity, but I think most of the regulations are a complete fraud just written for some contracts to be handed out and to protect the interests of a handful of larger firms. However, please note the difference between overseas firms offering multiple markets and a group like CY or this True Trading Group who is operating out of a basement in NY and opened their business 3 days ago. There is a big difference between IFSC oversight and blatant attempts to remain unregistered. Don is dealing with GS. If it wasn't for the trillions in bailouts, GS would be long gone from the US financial services sector. That's why I say off-shore firms may be the only option for traders in the near future. Think about a European Meltdown and how that would reflect on our financial services firms. Nobody is protected from exposure to financial markets. The risk comes along with the territory. To protect yourself from losing your capital, seeking government regulated entities is not going to help. Groups like Bright that have navigated through the markets for decades are ultimately the best group to invest in; however, note that NOBODY is completely safe from a financial crisis. The largest clearing agencies like GS are mostly in business because of their ties with government and their lobbying pushing regulators to regulate to protect them an f**k over small firms giving competition. FINRA calls this "institutional solvency" Maybe many of you haven't done much investing overseas, but even Europe's regulations are a lot more conducive to business. If they weren't, I wouldn't get PMs on a daily basis about how to avoid regulations. Most people are realizing that most of the fraud being committed in the financial services sector these days is government fraud. Whether they are seeking to completely shut down prop firms in the US is still up for debate, but at this point, it does look like those are the clear intentions of lobbyists and regulators