WTS - JC Trading

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by textrader4, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. Good point, and a question that should be asked before looking to join ANY prop firm, especially if the number is not clearly separated in the SEC filings.
    #11     Sep 22, 2011
  2. What I was pointing out is that WTS itself has foreign offices (in this case, "foreign" being Canada) and thus they could be better capitalized than what is stated in the domestic filing. But you're right, the Canadian assets would not be recoverable by a U.S. based trader, just as the foreign traders of Team Trading are having difficulty in recovering their funds.
    #12     Sep 22, 2011

  3. That's gotta hurt.
    #13     Sep 22, 2011
  4. reddy09



    Sorry, it just seems like you are a bitter ex-WTS trader that needs to comment on every WTS thread/post. Have you examined the reports of all the other firms out there? Does WTS have a different structure than any of the other CBSX firms out there?

    To bring Charlie Vaccarro and Oliver Velez into any discussion of any SEC registered BD is a disgace and insulting.

    BTW, before you claim I am a WTS employee I can stop you there....I trade at Bright and highly recommend them...I was just curious of what your true motives are since you are such a WTS hater.
    #14     Sep 22, 2011
  5. Reddy, I understand you seeing it that way. I am actually really concerned about the dark side of this business. I never traded for WTS, I currently trade but am sick when I see some of what goes on around me at these places. Websites without broker dealers on them, lack of clarity on if they are using trader money for operating capital (something you can't tell by using the publicly available SEC filings).

    What hurts the most is that these guys pitch a fake dream. If you can't get hired at a prop firm, or a lead in trading job, you need to find another career. I'm begging you to do that instead of spending months staring at BAC and SPRINT and NOK. Really, ask someone in the elevator there you see if anyone makes money. I did the math, and even if you make generous assumptions, the largest possible take homes are really bad.

    Your specific points:

    Yes, they are a BD, but they appear to be the scariest BD out there due to the size of the trader base versus the company's capital and that awful balance sheet.

    I looked at a lot of online filings. The only scarier one was Benchmarq, which now closed up suddenly in the middle of the summer..

    I was surprised Scalper Joe suggested 'mysterious' Canadian assets would make WTS stronger. The major point is HLV, owned by Vacarro, predecessor to Team Trading with Velez, blew up, and whatever was not assets of the company being sued or in bankruptcy was never recovered. The judge said that no one could pierce the corporate veil (thus a LLC = LIMITED LIABILITY Company). So whatever assets the company had at that time were frozen were frozen and divvied up, but that was it. Even if a different entity has a similar name, like WTT or something, it is not officially or even unofficially part of WTS in any manner (unless fraud, which isn't a bunch of people who fail to read an operating agreement b/c it is too long).

    I think it is fair game to explain this. Plenty of people drive fancy cars and talk a big game. It isn't often true. Since you are happy at Bright, that is great, but if you think something like their publicly filed, independently audited financials are telling you something, and no one combats it, it should make you stop and think.

    #15     Sep 23, 2011
  6. cstfx


    Sarge, take a look at Avatar Sec. Give them a call and check them out. I think you will find them a different CBSX firm than what WTS represents.
    #16     Sep 23, 2011
  7. i am sorry, could someone pls briefly (and correctly pls) describe the legal structure of these "prop firms"? which membership is required ? how does a firm like Global Market Trading or Globus of Canada work?
    #17     Sep 23, 2011
  8. Canada (and non-US) I have no idea. Seems a little wild west to me, althogh Swift got a Canada and US beat down (Biremis was the US BD) in the states recently.

    In the US, you file for SEC registration (which is a rubber stamp). Then you need to find a SRO / Designated Examining Authority (FINRA if have retail customers, otherwise, others are available - CBOE / CBSX, PhilX, Chicago Stock Exchange (like Bright goes thru).

    Then you need a clearing firm, and there are plenty of shady ones, so if you have a pulse that isn't a problem.
    #18     Sep 23, 2011
  9. Thanks, I appreciate it. (But I'm not looking at this time.)

    I am under the impression that Avatar does not rebate trade as their primary strategy, so I agree, they are in a different league than WTS, who seems to stand alone at the bottom of registered firms. (Which are better than rebate trading unregistered firms!)

    #19     Sep 23, 2011
  10. nipapage


    What is WTS's commission for 1,000 shares (+- liquidity) ?
    #20     Sep 23, 2011