Wizetrade Software - Any Users? Any Opinions?

Discussion in 'Trading Software' started by hpydad, Nov 24, 2001.

  1. hpydad


    Anyone familiar with or any users of Wizetrade Software that uses a series of green and red lights to indicate when to buy or sell according to parameters set by the user? Can be used for day trades or long term trades.

    Have seen a quick demo of the software and seems to be legitimate.

    I am an absolute novice to trading and trying to learn what I can before jumping into purchasing the software and need some feedback from any users or anyone familiar with it.

    THANKS, hpydad :confused:
  2. I tried it out for a month last April, and returned it. While the program is interesting, it appeared to be using moving averages based on price & volume information that you can get in almost any charting software.

    There isn't anything magical about WizeTrade. It's very expensive, and they've done a good job making the interface clean, but my opinion is that you are better off studying and understanding technical indicators and doing things yourself, rather than looking at a 'dumbed down' view (red/green lights) of the same information. I didn't want to pay $4000 just to have a program extrapolate price/volume information into a binary on or off -- I can do the interpretation myself.

    There was one other annoying characterisic of WizeTrade which they could never explain to me. Looking at their charts historically, everything looks great. But when you watch them real-time, the cross-overs that show entry and exit points change. For example, a cross-over occurs in a 5 minute time-frame, triggering a buy signal. Then when the chart is updated after the next 5 minutes, sometimes the chart was redrawn and the cross-over would no longer be there. The result was that I'd get false signals -- signals that were there real-time, but looking at the chart after the fact, the signal was no longer there. That was the clincher for me.
  3. Looks like the same program and the same people and most of the same hype that was being pumped on this and several other boards about a year and half ago.

    Some long time board members might remember a Texas company that was spamming the board hyping their program called WOW (can't remember what the initial were for - BTW, not to be confused with Windows on Wallstreet). No one who tried kept it and the amount of smoke and mirrors and hype was overwhelming.

    Looking at the Wizetrade site, it looks like exactly the same program, the same guy who's the CEO (and who was pumping WOW back then), and much the same hype. Sure doesn't look like it's worth anywhere what they're charging.

    Caveat emptor!!!
  4. Turok


    >The result was that I'd get false signals -- signals
    >that were there real-time, but looking at the chart
    >after the fact, the signal was no longer there. That
    >was the clincher for me.

    My comments have nothing to do with WizeTrade (which I consider to be a sham simply from my exposure to their sales methods at trading shows) but are aimed at your "false signals" comments.

    I have used almost 10 different data suppliers and from experience consider Townsend (RealTick) to be the most reliable around. Even with them however, I got these false signals to which you refer. I found that the issue comes down to methods of data scrubbing.

    When a sale is reported say .70 out of the market, is it real or not? Sometimes it turns out to an error and it disappears from the data bank in a few seconds (although you won't know it unless you refresh your chart). Other times it turns out to be a trade that gets broken and it will be purged from a few minutes to a few hours later. Sometimes it is a large block trade that is reported late and stays aboard. Any of these scenarios cause problem for indicators (particulary those short term) and in all but the last case will create a "trigger" that upon historical review will occur at at different point or not at all.

    I finally programmed my own indicators in VB and using the Townsend API to access the data I do my own data scrubbing. I don't really care if the sale is "real" or not -- if it is more than X outside the market (X can vary by stock) it is removed for indicator purposes.

    I'm certainly not sticking up for WizeTrade here, but I would likely attribute "false signals" to the data feed rather than to the software itself.

  5. Turok,

    I appreciate your comments and agree with your assessment regarding the data scrubbing and false sales numbers -- they do occur and can cause indicators to be out of bounds, especially short term. However, the false signals in WizeTrade are not caused by these occasional 'bad' ticks and here is why:

    WizeTrade uses a graph with 2 indicators that look like a simple moving average of price (it's more complex than that, since they take into account volume too). One is red, the other is green. A buy signal is when the green crosses up through the red, and a sell signal is when the red crosses down through the green.

    For example, if you look at a standard 20 period and 50 period moving average on the same chart, you'll see that the two lines cross each other occasionally (this could be a 15 minute chart, daily chart, doesn't matter). When these moving average lines cross, they stay crossed. In WizeTrade, however, I suppose because of the way their algorithm works, the lines don't always stay crossed. This happens on all the time periods (daily, 60 minutes, 15 minutes, etc.). If the problem were due to a bad tick, a 5 minute chart would not be affected at all, since it is only 1 of thousands of data points and would be 'washed out' or 'averaged out', irrelevant.

    I studied this very carefully with WizeTrade. I've been programming for many years (that's my full-time job, senior software engineer), and have written several programs that use the Townsend API as you have. I calculate in my latest program several technical indicators based on the TAL data to generate my signals. While I don't know the WizeTrade algorithm, I came to the conclusion that it has a fatal flaw because it will give false signals (again, in any time frame), because in the next time period (5 min, 60, daily, whatever) redraw the chart differently.

    To me, it was cheating. It looks great for selling the product (the signals look pretty good when your looking at what happened historically on a chart). But what you don't know is that there were a bunch of false signals that happened in real-time, but of course you don't see those on the chart after the fact.

    Okay, sorry for getting so long winded ;-)
  6. bequick01


    My engineering professors always told us to "learn the principals and fundamentals" instead of trying to always just make an "A" in the class. They use to say in the real world the principals and fundamentals is what carry’s you through any environment. Oh how true this wisdom is.

    I own Wizetrade and called their help line one evening for some advice and the gentleman gave me a smart-off answer. When I posed my question he said, "Just do what the software says". NOT GOOD at all as I became ticked-off. I said to myself for $2000 dollars this is what I get. I realized that I studied and knew the software backwards and forwards but did not know the first thing about stock market trading. It was then that I heard my engineering professors yelling in the back of my ear about principals and fundamentals. That’s when I took action.

    I stopped all stock market activity and took time off to read and study books and CD's; Toni Turner's books, Melvin Pasternak 21 candlesticks, Steven Achelis' Technical Analysis from A to Z, website materials, and 1 –1/2 years later I have had a transformation in my trading knowledge, understanding, and respect for the market. I was kicking myself when I learned that the Stochastic indicator has the same two line cross over, the MACD oscillates to cross over its 0-line to tell you when to take a position, and the CCI does a cross over indication of a signal to act upon also. Does this crossing over sound familiar. The power of understanding candlesticks and what they can provide is unmatched. Candlesticks are the fastest (almost instant) information return signal out there. Lets not forget about the role of volume and moving averages. The more I studied the stock market industry; Wizetrade became too weak and shallow as a trading tool. I have stopped using it as my preferred style. Its works for some but as a long time engineer I prefer to use the principals and fundamentals of Technical Analysis instead.

    One thing WT does that is very concerning to me; as they teach through their avenues they are using professional trading terminologies like “consolidation”, “pull backs”, “convergence” and so on. They are taking their professional knowledge and experience and using it as a safety net when using or referring to Wizetrade. Yea they are touting how great the software is and telling you to use FAST and entry/exit signals but their real power and understanding comes from the support structure of stock market “Technical Analysis” and not Wizetrade. The average new user is hanging over a canyon on a weak rope when he/she is using WT as a market trading learning tool. Do yourself a favor, learn stock market industry fundamentals first and then decide. I am not pitching Toni Turner but she has written one of the best self-starter books out there for long term and short term trading but in any event start somewhere and get some knowledge under your belt.

    I am not trying to trash Wizetrade or any other trend recognition software. Some individuals may not have the patience to self-study and teach themselves the principals and fundamental of the stock market industry.

    Packaged trend recognition software may be your ticket but realize that there is nothing new under the sun. I hope this helps some one out there that is unsure of the next step to take.
  7. MarkBrown


    total bull$hit just remember i told you that as your set with your family under a bridge trying to stay warm as the wize guy whizzes by in his red Ferrari you helped pay for.

  8. RhinoGG

    RhinoGG Guest

    this thread is seven fucking years old. when will you fucking crybabies grow up. yes, we get it, wisetrade.is.a.peice.of.shit. thanks for the fucking reminder you ass monkey
  9. Oh, i dont know-people need reminding, and an opinion from one of the eminent , most experienced system developers in the business, (creator of oddball) is always good.

    Mark Brown is an ass-monkey? :p
  10. It's six years old.

    2007-2001 = 6
    (2007 minus 2001 equals 6)
    #10     Nov 14, 2007