with trade through rule...how does this happen??

Discussion in 'Trading' started by madmunny, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. I am under the beleif that besides using arca.....a person cannot buy or sell through the specialist's price. Many times i have wanted to buy the 1000 shares on island one cent out of market but i cant hit them because the specialist is showing 100 shares at the market price. So i would like to know how these orders of 20k went through on OI a couple days ago. It cant be an out of sequence print as i have those filtered out....also if it had a special condition attached to it that condition would show in my SI Condition column......so my T&S's tells me that those two trades happened at that time and i cant understand how that could happen. Does the new hybrid system allow trading through the specialist now? Or is there another explanation for this that i am unaware of?
  2. It's a bit hard to read any times, if any...I see .77 offers at times...and T&S just shows the trades....If you see something again, let me know the same day and I can see exactly what happened.

    Also, on your service what does "D" stand for? I see the "E" for error correction, which is another possible explanation.

  3. the D stands for any trade that happens on Island, brut, btrd ro nasdaq MM. The N's are any trades through the specialist and P's are arca.

    The E in the SI conditions stands for Automatic Execution on our T&S
  4. OK, you have to be sure that the market was not offered at .77 or .76 for a second while they traded.

  5. Were you the one that got filled? How do you know it wasnt a crossing network that trades blocks?

    I was under the impression all crossing networks print as NASD (D at swift) so unless you saw the trades get filled on ISLD/BTRD/BRUT/MILN, is it possible to know they were regular ecns that filled?
  6. No i wasnt the one that got filled.....and i know it was none of these ISLD/BTRD/BRUT/MILN

    so yes it could have been a crossing network if they are allowed to trade through the specialist....i was the offer on the specialist so i know that the two 25k trades were outside of market.

    If crossing networks are allowed to trade through the specialist like that and not print a special condition for that then that is obviously the answer
  7. Here's another good question. If I see a "D" print and want to know what it was, who can tell me? can I call esignal or email nyse? someone must know.....RIGHT?
  8. ggg


    It doesn't have to be a crossing network, it can be anyone doing a block trade, or any market maker (/ specialist) that feels like printing out there.

    The worst news of all this that I've got for you is that the time on the time and sales from US stocks reported via CTS simply isn't reliable. I'm sorry to say it's entirely feasible for a market maker (/specialist) to be doing trades and reporting them at very different times during the day. Mind you, people have noticed the abuse at the exchange level and have tried to curtail that as much as possible, generally trying to keep the print within 90 seconds of a normal trade. However, it can usually be gotten around, especially for block trades.
  9. could it be slippage?
  10. Echo user? ;)

    I've seen prints like that several times also, and could never figure out what they meant. My only guess is that it was either negotiated on the floor or a late print from a negotiated trade. Someone more savvy than me I'm sure could clear that up.
    #10     Sep 8, 2006