America was a nation of settlers, not immigrants. There are differences. It was the settlers who built the American nation and gave it its flavor that the later immigrants came to be assimilated into. This shouldn't be a hugely important point, but the way immigration enthusiasts go on and on about a "nation of immigrants" the point needs to be raised. Now, those people - let's name them, Mexicans - may "work hard", but they are also league leaders in highschool drop out rates, English language difficulties and whole host of other social pathologies. All these things need to be considered, not just their hard work. Immigrant families don't grow old? Who will pay their social security? Yet more immigrants? This isn't a solution; it's the postponement of a solution. (And if you're a conservative, why do you even care about social security?) But flood your country with millions of Mexicans (or better yet, Algerians or other Muslims), most of whom are just here out of greed, who grudingly speak your language, let alone wish to assimilate into anything, and boy, you can sure write your own foreign policy then, right? Not. Anyway, America isn't dying (neither is France), it's just reproducing at a lower rate. Yet, for all that, they still vote overwhelmingly democrat. In many ways: They left the 'old country' on the understanding they were never going back, and had little choice but to leave the old ways behind and assimilate into something new. Mexicans live a stone's throw away and are greeted with multicultural policies that ask them to stay as Mexican as they can. Then, if that wasn't enough, they demand Americans learn Spanish, rather than they learn English and replace July 4th with Cinco de Mayo. On top of that, many of them don't even belive they're in a new country: afterall, "we didn't cross the border, the border crossed us"; the southwest is, properly, Mexican territory. And, since you asked, the 'great wave' immigrants were all white. That's not supposed to mean anything, but fifty years (or whatever) later, you couldn't tell one of them from someone whose family had been in America since the 17th century. Racial (and cultural) similarity also mean more intermarriage, which obviously greatly accelerates assimilation. Today's immigrants are almost entirely non-white, so that effect cannot be relied upon. And of course, the 'great wave' eventually ended. Not naturally, but with a moratorium on immigration. That also helped immensely in assimilating all those immigrants. In contrast, there seems little prospect of the current wave of immigration ever ending (not talking about only Mexico, now). None of this should worry me, as I don't think I'll ever live in America again. But it does worry me, because if America doesn't check its immigration, Australian immigration enthusiasts will use that as an excuse to do the same thing to Australia. Fortunately, Australians tend to be a whole lot saner about immigration, but there's still the risk.
Well, sure Pabst. If the price of giving up your country isn't too much to pay, yeah, go hell for leather. Posterity might judge you harshly, but hey, that's their problem. For all the economic immigration enthusiasts, why don't any of them ever bother to explain how Japan maintains living standards with almost non-existent immigration? Might there be a lesson to learn there?
Like all difficult issues, there are good points on both sides. I have to agree with Pat Buchanan however that economic efficiency is not the end all and be all of every policy. Frankly, I'm not convinced by the economic argument either. There are enormous external costs created by this uncontrolled illegal immigration, which let's be honest, is largely comprised of the poor and uneducated. Start with slyrocking health care costs, soaring crime rates, a gang culture that has made parts of western cities uninhabital for citizens, schools that have been overwhelmed by an influx of non-english speakers,etc. These are costs that properly should be paid by the various businesses that employ these illegals, but instead they reap the profits and we pay for it. I may not want to pay $8 for a taco, but I also don't want to go to an emergency room and have a 12 hour wait while hundreds of illegals get their basic health care and have their shootings, stabbings, drug OD's etc taken care of, all paid for by me. The economic part of the picture is important but not dispositive. I am more concerned about what it is doing to our country and what it will do in the future. The enlightened are constantly telling us to learn history so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past. Well, name me a multicultural society that doesn't have enormous problems. Why create such a tinderbox through failure to enforce the law? I defy anyone to tell me there will not be problems. One look at those demonstrations tells me all I need to know. This is a problem that will only get worse. Frankly I would rather just give Mexico the southwest back , if it meant we could kick the illegals out of the rest of the ocuntry and get control of our immigration policy. I am convinced the alternative of following our current policy will be far worse.
Looks like the government missed a great opportunity to round up a lot of illegals. I was opposed to the idea of making illegal immigration a felony, but these demonstrations have convinced me we have to take a stand. Where do illegals get the idea that they can threaten us with huge street demonstrations? Why does the government allow it? Are they so afraid of the illegal immigration lobby that they will just allow anything? I'm convinced that this issue will decide the mid-term elections and right now the republicans look like the losers. As this thread shows, republicans are divided, while democrats are all for illegal immigration. If no strong reforms are forthcoming and Bush continues to tolerate these outrages, enough republicans will get the message and stay home on election day. It would serve Bush right if that resulted in democrats taking over congress and filing articles of impeachment against him. ******************************** Size of L.A. March Surprises Authorities By PETER PRENGAMAN Associated Press Writer LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Thousands of immigration advocates marched through downtown Los Angeles in one of the largest demonstrations for any cause in recent U.S. history. More than 500,000 protesters - demanding that Congress abandon attempts to make illegal immigration a felony and to build more walls along the border - surprised police who estimated the crowd size using aerial photographs and other techniques, police Cmdr. Louis Gray Jr. said. Wearing white T-shirts to symbolize peace, the demonstrators chanted "Mexico!" "USA!" and "Si se puede," an old Mexican-American civil rights shout that means "Yes, we can." In Denver, more than 50,000 people protested downtown Saturday, according to police who had expected only a few thousand. Phoenix was similarly surprised Friday when an estimated 20,000 people gathered for one of the biggest demonstrations in city history, and more than 10,000 marched in Milwaukee on Thursday. "We construct your schools. We cook your food," rapper Jorge Ruiz said after performing at a Dallas rally that drew 1,500. "We are the motor of this nation, but people don't see us. Blacks and whites, they had their revolution. They had their Martin Luther King. Now it is time for us." Many protesters said lawmakers were unfairly targeting immigrants who provide a major labor pool for America's economy. "Enough is enough of the xenophobic movement," said Norman Martinez, 63, who immigrated from Honduras as a child and marched in Los Angeles. "They are picking on the weakest link in society, which has built this country." The U.S. House of Representatives has passed legislation that would make it a felony to be in the U.S. illegally, impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants, require churches to check the legal status of people they help, and erect fences along one-third of the U.S.-Mexican border. The Senate is to begin debating the proposals on Tuesday. President Bush on Saturday called for legislation that does not force America to choose between being a welcoming society and a lawful one. "America is a nation of immigrants, and we're also a nation of laws," Bush said in his weekly radio address, discussing an issue that had driven a wedge into his own party. Bush sides with business leaders who want to let some of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants stay in the country and work for a set period of time. Others, including Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, say national security concerns should drive immigration reform. But many protesters rejected claims the national security claim, noting that the legislation would hurt Hispanics the most. "When did you ever see a Mexican blow up the World Trade Center? Who do you think built the World Trade Center?" said David Gonzalez, 22, who marched in Los Angeles with a sign that read, "I'm in my homeland.'" Between 5,000 and 7,000 people gathered Saturday in Charlotte, carrying signs with slogans such as "Am I Not a Human Being?" In Sacramento, more than 4,000 people protested immigration legislation at an annual march honoring the late farm labor leader Cesar Chavez. The demonstrations are expected to culminate April 10 in a "National Day of Action" organized by labor, immigration, civil rights and religious groups. ---
Think about it for a minute. Illegal immigration is win-win for Congress: 1) They get HEAPS of Corporate slush money otherwise ungifted by the regular public. 2) Any future terrorist attack that results from their 'open border' policy will only justify: a) More Government spending b) More Government power Follow the money. The reality: Congress doesn't give a fuck about this country or whats good for the broader American public - otherwise they would have come down like an iron fist and shut down both borders on sept 12th, 2001. These people aren't stooges. They know EXACTLY what the stakes are. Congress has made a conscious choice to hand this country over to the plutocrats in exchange for money and power. Sound familiar?
Vicente Fox for President!!! (You might be surprised how many votes he would get.....Or maybe you wouldn't.)
"The president, working hand-in-hand with the business community that relies on cheap labor, is pressuring Congress to allow immigrants to stay in the country legally if they take a job that Americans are unwilling to do. Judiciary Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., also supports the idea and has vowed that his committee will advance a bill to the full Senate on Monday, even if they have to work "very, very late into the night."
Bush is a total whore. And so is Spector and the entire Democratic party. Americans mindlessly assume their modern-day politicians are upright and honorable since the founders were. What they totally miss is the Founders STARK WARNING made to us through the Spirit of the Constitution that speaks entirely to the predatory and abusive nature of those with power. Americans have been cowed into accepting this phoney form of patriotism for so long, they DARE NOT cast suspicion on those in Government! Instead, we've let these criminals cultivate this false fear in our hearts thats deflected our natural suspicion away from them, and towards each other. Our own fellow citizens. And for that, we've paid the ultimate price. We've let these shitbags talk us out of our rights so they can protect us from the phoney threats they shepherd themselves. The Drug War. Gun Control. Income Tax. Economic depressions. 'Terrorism'. OKC Bombing. Its all theatre designed to scare the piss out of you to give up all your money and all your rights. And for what???