Will Capitalism Survive/Fix This?

Discussion in 'Economics' started by tommo, Dec 5, 2016.

  1. tommo

    tommo

    Hi,

    Firstly, i am a capitalist. I believe many of the world problems are caused from departing from capitalism (central banks pumping up asset prices with no real earnings/innovations/wage growth to back it up as one example). But also i do agree there are serious issues effecting a lot of people.

    Inequality is growing and although a big part of me thinks "thats life, there are winners and losers", civil and then political unrest is no good for anybody and when the poor start to revolt it never ever ends in a pretty way. The disillusioned need help quickly or we could see more and more protest votes until we end up with something very ugly.. communism or communism-lite i.e huge taxes on people making money, big taxes on your possessions, huge taxes on inheritance, huge taxes on investment incomes.. basically a larger and larger state dominating what we can and cant do taking money from us in the process until we are forced to become more equal. Im genuinely worried where this could end.

    But back to the issue, i dont buy the whining "oh theres rich people and im not rich, boo!" they will always be around. But when people are working full time and still have crap lives something is very wrong.

    But what options are there?

    1/ Bring asset prices down through rate increases/step back from monetary stimulus to level the playing field and allow first time buyers to get some property and calm unrest. This is risky, a lot of people have been forced into property and leveraged assets to squeeze any sort of return. A downturn in this market and could lead to another crisis as people quickly go into negative equity and non performing loans crash the system again.

    2/ We do a tax slash and hope growth accelerates and "trickle down" works. America and possibly UK stands a decent chance of getting away with this but a lot of Europe is left leaning, you try this and it doesnt work and will be a strong left wing response that will take decades to recover from.

    3/ Do a "New Deal" type stimulus plan where the government borrows to build a ton of infrastructure that probably isnt that efficient but gets people into a job and the government becomes the employer/wage grower of last resort. ISSUE, with what money? If borrowing endless amounts to just give people feel good jobs worked we would all be driving around on perfect roads and have 5 kids per class in schools and private hospitals for all. But this doesnt work, money has to be repaid back and employing road builders on $50 an hour to make unemployed people feel better will cripple governments ability to service debt.

    If we are going to have a future of free market capitalism where the american dream still is something a person can achieve/aspire to, capitalism needs to prove it can fix this situation.

    Anyone got any positive scenarios to combat my pretty negative outlook?
     
  2. java

    java

    Make up your mind. Are you advocating for equality or capitalism?
     
    zdreg and gkishot like this.
  3. capitalism creates equality.. Interventionism of any sort benefits one group at the expense of another at a overall net loss.. there is no other way to put it .. its very simple
     
    tom2 likes this.
  4. tommo

    tommo

    I think i was pretty clear, i am advocating capitalism... but it is being threatened at the moment as people feel they are being cut adrift. We either figure out a way for the disillusioned to feel included or we risk losing the freedoms we enjoy. Any suggestions?
     
    W.J. Feathermaker III and piezoe like this.

  5. HOGWASH! Those feeling like they've been "cut adrift" are actually "no do-ers" who expect somebody else do something to improve their way of life.

    There is no "cutting adrift"... only those who "do" and those who "do not... and bitch about how life ain't fair to them."

    Of course there are "inequalites". But not because some have been "cut adrift". Some work harder and smarter than others.
     
    bjohnson777, zdreg, gkishot and 2 others like this.
  6. CyJackX

    CyJackX

    I don't think there is a free market solution to the downward pressures of capitalism on quality of living.

    I don't think anybody here is disillusioned enough to believe that labor scales linearly or appropriately with compensation.

    But, in the interest of the question, a company won't pay you more for more work if it doesn't have to. The influx of cheap labor is a a problem of globalization. Solve that first. How do you compensate workers well enough without hamstringing the companies?

    But otherwise, my first instinct is elevating the minimum wage to a commodity peg. Some of the money the workers make could make their way back to the companies thru the economy. Trickle-Up Economics, if you will. I personally believe that if the lower class has easier access to wealth they will grow the economy better than if corporations have access to wealth, as individuals are more likely to boost their local economy thru spending or small business-creation, whereas corporations are less likely to redistribute and will offshore.

    But once jobs become catastrophically sparse thru automation, we'll have nothing left but a universal basic income.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
    Gambit likes this.
  7. Worst possible thing which could infest a capitalistic society. What, TONS of people who just lie about, producing NOTHING... just collecting benefits at the expense of the work of others? How does that benefit society?

    If there is no work for the dregs... and they're nothing but a drain on society, and effectively "useless".... perhaps the best for all is to just exterminate them. After all, once they transform from "useful idiots" to merely "eaters", what's the use of having them around?
     
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  8. CyJackX

    CyJackX

    Quite simply, what other option is there in a hypothetical society where job and worker parity will forever be out of balance due to automation?

    Also, an insidious assumption that those who collect benefits would contribute nothing. Does welfare tempt you to do nothing? Probably not. You have pride enough to work and advance your quality of living. Why can't you extend that same thoughtfulness to others?

    Question: What are your thoughts on minimum wage in general? Opponents say that it is merely the privatizing of welfare, by forcing companies to pay their lowest earners more.
     
  9. tommo

    tommo

    I agree with you. That's how I feel. But the fact is that's not how a lot of people feel now. America, the home of capitalism and the 'go and get your dream' mentality that's envied by millions around the world had Bernie Sanders close to running for president that is a hardened socialist. Leader of the opposition in U.K. Is a socialist that in the past praised Cuban and Venezuelan economics!

    The world is losing its faith in capitalism. I'm saying that's wrong. And what are the solutions to turn the people that have lost their faith in it to realise how much they have benefitted from it?
     
    cdcaveman likes this.
  10. Each person should be required to "pay his own way in the world". If not... and he's just a parasite on others.... difficult to find justification in his existence.

    IOW... "Make your own way in the world or perish". Nobody deserves to live as a parasite at the expense of others.
     
    #10     Dec 5, 2016
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