Excellent, so you saw this shroud tm direct? Have foto's, purchance? Hey, why not stretch the credibility as Faaaaaaaaaaaar as it can go. Stretch it, come on , who couldn't use a miracle.
The shroud of Turin over and over has proven to be a fake. It dates too young. Even if it was real and dated old enough what evidence do you have that the man who is in the picture was named Jesus? http://www.skeptic.ws/shroud/articles/science-vie-shroud-fake.htm http://www.freeinquiry.com/skeptic/shroud/ http://www.physorg.com/news4652.html Witnesses? The bible says there were witnesses to a bible story without naming them. Kind of weak dont you think? Please post the names of any witnesses without using the bible.
Proof #30 - Examine God's sexism If you would like to prove to yourself that God is imaginary, here is one easy way to do it: Look for places in the Bible where God is an absurd, unmitigated jerk instead of the "all-knowing", "all-loving", "fully-enlightened" being that he is supposed to be. The utter contradiction proves that God is imaginary. There are many parts of the Bible that display these tendencies, for example this and this. However, if you are a woman, the place where God's absurdity becomes completely clear is when you look at God's sexism. The dictionary defines a misogynist as "One who hates women." [ref] It defines the word "sexist" as: Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender Is God a sexist? Let's look at the evidence. We find this in 1 Corinthians chapter 14: As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. This seems like a straightforward passage. And God is the one who inspired the Bible. In Isaiah 40:8 God says that the word of the Lord will last forever, and he says the same thing again in 1 Peter 1:24-25. So here we have God, in his eternal and everlasting Word, saying that it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. This quote from 1 Corinthians 11 is important: But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head--it is the same as if her head were shaven. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels. You may find it hard to believe that something that confusing is in the Bible, yet if you look it up you will find it is there. Then there is this section from 1 Timothy chapter 2: Also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. It is hard to miss God's meaning when he says something as direct as, "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent." If you think about it, you will realize that God started this type of sexism at the very beginning of the Bible. In Genesis chapter 17 God says: This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your descendants after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. God makes no mention of forming any sort of covenant with women. There are many other examples that we can find in the Bible: In Matthew 25:1 Jesus says: "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom." In John 20:17 Jesus says to Mary: "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father," as though the touch of a woman is somehow improper, but a few verses later, is happy to have Thomas touch him. In Genesis chapter 3, God punishes Eve, and all women for thousands of years, with greatly increased pain during childbirth. No such pain is inflicted on Adam. In Ephesians 5:22-24 we find this: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything." In 1 Peter 3:7 we find: "Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers." In 1 John 2:13, John says, "I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father." No mention is made of women. And so on. There are many, many examples like these throughout the old and new testaments. There are other, broader examples of misogyny that are readily apparent in the Bible as well: Are any of Jesus' disciples women? No. Are any of the elders in the book of Revelation women? No. Are any of the books of the Bible written by women? No. Etc... God, it would seem, wants nothing to do with women. Keep in mind that the Bible's misogyny has affected society for centuries. The United States constitution, for example, was originally drafted to specifically deny rights to women. Women could not even vote in the United States until 1920, and only then after decades of battle in the women's suffrage movement. If you think about it, you will realize that there is something quite odd about this situation. In spite of the fact that the Bible is supposed to be God's eternal Word, modern human beings totally reject God's sexism. Modern human beings completely ignore God: We make women the CEOs of major corporations. We elect women to high government offices. We appoint women as presidents of universities. We fill our schools with female teachers. We allow women to speak freely in church. The contradiction should be as obvious as a lighthouse here. There is no ambiguity. We do all of this in direct defiance of God's Law in the Bible because we know God and his "eternal word" are completely wrong. We know that God is imaginary. If God is going to take the time to write and publish "the Word of God," why does the book contain so many problems? Why isn't each page of the Bible astonishing us with its brilliance and insight, and filling us with wonder? Why, instead, does the Bible contain so much nonsense or, in this case, bigotry? Why are Christians constantly having to justify, rationalize, excuse and explain the Bible? In this case, we find modern Christians trying to defend a God who obviously hates women on many different levels. To any unbiased observer, the reason for sexism in the Bible is very easy to understand: The Bible was not written by a "all-knowing", "all-loving", "fully-enlightened" "god". It was written by primitive men who were flagrant sexists. Just look at how men in primitive countries like Afghanistan treat women today. Those are the kind of men who wrote the Bible. And we all know it -- Christians and non-Christians alike. The reason why modern societies totally reject sexism is because we all know that the Bible's sexism is completely contradictory and completely wrong. It is exactly the same situation we see when Christians face slavery in the Bible. Christians and non-Christians alike reject the Bible's teachings in these areas because the Bible is obviously wrong. The part that is profoundly strange is that, while completely rejecting these parts of the Bible, Chistians will claim that other parts of the Bible are God's word. They are blind to the obvious contradiction because of their utter delusion. Once you break the delsuion, it is completely obvious: God is imaginary.
you asked for one shred of evidence.....I provide one and then you say its no good....and i like the way you make it sound like fact. I accept it as fact, you do not. But short of a video tap of jesus walking on the water, you will not believe. Re: Planets.....how many have you actually seen LOL....On any given night, how many can you see even if you had a telescope??....yet you would bet the house that there are ____planets??? You don't see yet you believe because science told you so.
Your evidence fails on 3 points: 1.The cloth dates too young. 2. There is no way to tell who the man was. 3. Even the church does not claim it is real. Surely there is some piece of evidence outside the bible that you can find that proves Jesus existed? Planets: With a cheap telescope you can see all of the planets. I can verify what science tells me. Can you do that with Jesus\God or is all emotions in your head?
Are you trying to say there is no debate about the Shroud??? there is just as much evidence that it is legit as their is against it...so you CHOOSE to not believe. With a cheap telescope you can see all the planets???? really?? Have you ever done that? Or are you just taking somebody's word for it?
You are just being childish now. You came on this site claiming that you had the only fundamental truth. When asked for proof the best you could come up with is a piece of cloth that most people who have studied it think is a fake. That hardly seems like a basis to proclaim fundamental truth. Are you sure you can not come up with better evidence than that?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from lkh: Is the concept of science changing its mind when presented with new evidence or new technology to test that evidence beyond your comprehension? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THANK YOU FOR PROVING AND AGREEING WITH MY original POINT!!!! below is what i brougth up and its taken you several posts to finally agree with me..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- never ceases to amaze me how a bunch of pesky humans here on earth for a minute amount of time, act like we are so KNOWING about creation, the universe and our earth...we are so scientific and smart.....but know so little.....whatever happened to Pluto??????LOL..we have no idea how we came to be yet we talk with such authority on why there is no God.