And again I respectfully assert that you are mixing apples and oranges. Atheism is not a metanarrative; an atheist does not necessarily find meaning within the context of atheism. To speak of an "atheist lifestyle" is meaningless in terms of fulfillment because there are all kinds of metanarratives available that do not rely on speculative belief in an intervening and loving God. Ask ten atheists what their purpose in life is and you may well get ten diverse answers. As for automatically assuming that your particular religion provides a superior metanarrative to all others available, that is simply a display of ignorance. And at the end of the day, many of us have a commitment to truth and reason as such that we couldn't embrace a falsehood even if it had high utility anyway. Man's ability to reason is perhaps his greatest endowment; to toss away reason for dubious short-term ends seems as close to blasphemy as one can get in a non-religious sense.
The fact that some do both gives us an opportunity to look for answers. If we look at stastics of people who just get vaccinated and then look at the stastics of believers who get vaccinated and pray what to we find? We find that both have the same outcome. Conclusion, prayer fails again..
archimedes, well stated I have known many atheists in my life... all of them with no exceptions (known to me yet) share three very distinct characteristics: #1: High to extreme intelligence levels, highly analytical #2: General negativity or pessimistic outlook on life #3: General expression of unhappiness or discontent with life ** That observation above comes from<b><u> the atheists I know / have known and interacted with</u></b>. Obviously it's not a blanket statement applicable to all... but I find it curious that some most-intelligent people are likewise so negative and filled with discontent. Likewise, most (not all) of the devout Christians I know are generally happy with a positive outlook on life. Again, not meant to be a blanket statement, just my own observation of human behavior around me. A belief in God = Higher Power has led countless people to overcome addictions (twelve step basis) and overcome terminal prognosis from health professionals. Whether the actual prayers were answered OR inner faith created the result is unknown. Countless people around the world will testify to healing from addictions and hopeless medical forecasts thru faith in general. Let me rephrase my earlier question: how does a lack of belief = faith in God benefit someone? Knowledge for its own sake is vital... proof of existence or lack therof for what we call God has been argued for eons without resolve by greater collective minds than we offer in this forum. The resolution to date is no resolution at all. With that in mind, with no scientific proof that God exists or not, one cannot make a scientific decision. It is a question of personal decision, aka faith. I merely wonder what benefit there is to having a lack of faith, without any proof available that God does not exist. In other words, what's in it for me = anyone to be agnostic / atheist? We can list many benefits to belief in a higher power... what list can be created in benefit of disbelief?
In its simplest sense being an atheist is saying that you dont believe what other men tell you unless you see proof that it is true. Thousands of years ago primitive men tried to explain their vision of god in a series of books called the bible. To take their word for it in this age of higher knowledge is silly. As an atheist i am more than willing to change my mind and become a theist the second i actually see any evidence if its truth. Religion today is like the movie "The Wizard of Oz". The characters in the movie were searching for what they lacked. They thought that a powerful wizard (god)could give them what they lacked. In the end the powerful wizard was exposed to be nothing more than a small man but the characters realized that what they thought they lacked was inside them all along. Were they better off when they believed the wizard (god)was responsible for their attributes or when they realized they were capable of finding the answers themselves? A free mind is a valuable thing.
I find such search for self-fulfilment in religious beliefs rather selfish. Is it God for me or me for God? Atheists tend to have much greater contribution to mankind than others, e.g., Darwin, Einstein.
Does truth have no value to you? Your first premis is false. there is no evidence that believers have happier lives than nonbelievers. In fact stastics sat that the christian divorce rate is higher than the divorce rate for nonbelievers. "A recent study by the Barna Research Group throws extreme doubt on these estimates. Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 1 They had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The margin of error is within 2 percentage points. The survey found: 11% of the adult population is currently divorced. 25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime. Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significently higher than for other faith groups, and for Atheists and Agnostics. George Barna, president and founder of Barna Research Group, commented: "While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."
This is ironic, as my experience was the opposite. Like lkh and vhehn, I was in the faith for many years. Looking back now, my experience of Christianity, and all the Christian friends and relatives I had (and still have), is this: they are either no more happy and well-adjusted than the unchurched, or they are less so, with religious bugaboos detracting from their sense of well being. Ironically, many of the Christians I know who regularly claim to be "happy" are actually downright miserable. Except when they are talking about how joyful and spirit-filled they are with a big smile on their face. There is a difference between genuine peace of mind and trying to fit an image. Christianity on the whole does not seem to do much good when it comes to well-being and life adjustment. What's worse, certain guilt associations and manipulative tendencies can cause Christianity and other religions to do great harm. For example, I have interacted with thoroughly vile Christian businessmen whose religion in large part made them vile; not directly but indirectly, by giving them a licentious self-righteousness that crept into everything they did. Paradoxical perhaps, but paradoxical in the way that becoming a tent-revival preacher can increase your chances of getting laid. The cloak of self-righteousness, coupled with the embrace of emotions and rejection of reason, can lead to ugly places. We can argue back and forth on whether religion provides true social well-being and benefit or not; ultimately that's a broad and subjective topic. I would argue that religion offers a similar service to the self-help industry, except with some nasty strings attached, and that properly vetted statistical evidence would not support the idea that devoutly religious people are happier. They will say they are happier, of course, but usually it's a ruse. That is what they are supposed to say. As for down-at-the-mouth atheists, try reading Consilience by Edward O. Wilson. He is one of the most reflective, thoughtful, and intellectually joyful non-believers you could ever come across. In fact, all theists with a shred of intellectual curiosity should read this book. I double dog dare you.
Dear <b>ikh, archimedes and seneca</b>: without question you are all very eloquent, reflective, intellectual and highly intelligent. I have honestly enjoyed the time, energy and effort in which you have spent stating your beliefs. In the end, I guess it all boils down to what each of us chooses to believe. I don't know why God doesn't heal amputees. I don't know why He doesn't grant every prayer that every Christian offers up. Wouldn't this be a perfect world if that happened? Each of us, all of us will have answers to questions of the universe in due time. I fully believe there is more to our lives than this time on earth... it would be very tragic indeed if that were not true. I certainly don't have answers to all questions: I long ago stopped trying. It was an effort in futility on my part to attempt such deep thinking without resolution. Instead I turned my focus and attention to enjoying the present and accepting the future as it comes. Faith works for me whereas lack of belief & doubt never did. I wish you all the best & nothing less in this life... and hope to see you in the time that follows. Thank you for intelligent, well-composed material you provided in here. Take great care! Austin P
I suggest you look into that statement further. Add a few more names and your enthusiasm might be curbed.