--------- How can you waste your time writing such crap stu. You write such distroted and misquoted crap. You are a fricken troll. 1. I spoke about time being an illusion. You keep harping on old physics. Why don't you address quantum physics? 2. You disgust me with your misquotes about what I said regarding God, Calvinism and given. You made the assertion about nothing exisiting outside of space time. STU's quote. the "big bang" is a singularity event. Space/time is said to have occurred after that event No-thing exists outside Space/time. No-thing is not some-thing. I asked you to prove it. You can not so you go off on a childish rant misrepresenting what I said. Get a life.
OLD PHYSICS !! hilarious - jeez that is hilarious. Einstein is OLD PHYSICS ha ha jem rotflmao. ahem sorry, haha fkin hell ha ha ha ha. scuse me. Right, so seeing as Einstein defined time, he is OLD PHYSICS, so you want to switch over to what? NEW Physics?? erm Quantum Physics.? dear me jem you make yourself sound so bloody ... I'll resist. You donât want proof discussion debate or civil discourse. You just want to default all argument to uncertainty so you can claim a little spot for God. Don't be so pathetic. The record shows. You want to learn to read properly. Instead of getting all disgusted you may start to understand better what is actually being said Yes Everything that exists is in the universe ( includes all multiverses universes) . Do you even know what exists means? Outside the universe is still 'in' the universe. What can't you get? Ah yes. A concise representation of the level your intelligent debate has managed to climb to. ....but thanks for the laugh
Another good deconversion story as we study the premis that"once you believe you cannot not believe again" postulated by Maverick: Ransom L. Webster You asked for permission to use my original letter in the winter 1995 issue of TSR. You certainly do have my permission. If its publication could lend courage or support to even one other person, pastor, missionary or spouse, then I would want it printed in bold letters. May I take this opportunity to relate to you just a bit more of my--that is, our--story? You might find it interesting. Both my wife Virginia and I were raised in conservative Christian homes during the '40s and '50s. Charles Fuller's Old-Fashioned Revival Hour was a regular in both our homes, as were the broadcasts of Donald Grey Barnhouse and many others. We met in our first year at college (the former National Bible Institute, renamed Shelton College; this eventually became one of the strongholds of Carl McIntire, founder of the American Council of Christian Churches) and have been together ever since. I graduated from Gordon Theological Seminary (now Gordon-Conwell) in Wenham, MA, and served churches in both the Baptist and Presbyterian denominations, all strictly evangelical/ fundamentalist. During those years, I always preached the standard gospel message of the "necessity of the new birth," based on the foundation of an "inerrant" Bible. I gave altar calls, held evangelistic and missionary conferences, sent the young people to Christian camps, etc., etc. But despite all this, which of course included an active personal prayer life, I became more and more concerned about the truth and validity of what I was doing and what I was saying. To help quiet my ever-growing uneasiness, I decided to return to formal studies, eventually graduating from Westminster Theological Seminary (Philadelphia, PA) with a Th. M. degree. Two years later, I again returned to the books, entering the Ph.D. program of the University of Nebraska at Lincoln ("Big Red" territory). My major was ancient history; my hopes were to find a way to bolster my sagging faith. (Yes, I was serving a church at the time.) I became a "teaching fellow" and was well on my way to a degree, but time began to run out in the sense that I was losing in the faith department faster than I was gaining in the doubt department. More knowledge--knowledge about the Bible and Christian history and other religions, etc.--only made the situation worse for me; now I could clearly see the fallacies, problems, cover-ups, denials, inconsistencies, exaggerations, and misrepresentations, which at one time I only suspected existed. To her eternal credit, it was my wife who had the guts to say, "This is crazy; you can stay in the church if you want, but count me out." Without her, I fear it would have taken me twice as long to do what needed to be done years earlier: I resigned never to pastor another church again. And--I want it clearly understood--not only did I resign from my particular church, but we also left the entire Christian system behind. Have we ever regretted this decision? Never. Not once. I admit, for a while, we didn't know what, if anything, to do about beliefs, or god, and such things. But this should not be mistaken for sorrow for leaving either the pastorate or the "faith." We have never, at any time, been sorry. We feel free, unburdened, relieved... and happier than we have ever felt in our entire lives. The initial concern that god would "get us" for this is gone. Now, together we explore ideas, seek new realms, experience wisdom previously lost to us. We look at social, political and spiritual issues in an entirely new way, invariably diametrically opposed to our old "Christian" views. As we consider the condition of the evangelical church of today, see their tactics, listen to their "logic," understand their agenda, hear their rationalizations, we are indeed glad that no longer are we caught up in this mindset, which once so powerfully "had us." Well, I'm not finished expressing myself by a longshot, but I'll stop, appreciative of this opportunity to have my say. There's a lot more to relate, about our present "beliefs," and what we are endeavoring to do, but I know you're a busy man. If you would like to hear more some time I'll be happy to comply. In the meantime, we do wish you success in your work. We feel a close kinship to people like you and are glad someone is doing something to refute the claims of that so-called "mighty army." One final question: do you know of anyone who is seeking to help former preachers and missionaries and their spouses on an emotional or psychological level through a support network or newsletter or something? ...I'm thinking of former Christian workers only, not lay people.
Another good deconversion story as we study the premis that"once you believe you cannot not believe again" postulated by Maverick: Glenn W. Wood I am 42 years old. I grew up a Southern Baptist, and my father was a Southern Baptist pastor. He pastored in Orange and Los Angeles Counties for over 20 years. When I was in my late 20's, I began to experience doubts concerning the things I had learned about God, the Bible, Jesus, heaven, hell, and salvation. I wrestled with my doubts for a long time, because the tenets of orthodox Christianity were so much a part of my psychological make-up and identity. I can now say with conviction that I do not believe in the fundamentals of Christianity or in the inerrancy of the Bible. I am basically an agnostic. I began to look honestly at all I believed to see if it made sense and was logical. I found much of it was not. I see that what most people call faith is but credulity. I see most people do not want to be challenged to think for themselves. It seems most people accept the status quo and what is most comfortable to them rather than have the strength to think for themselves. They are afraid of what people, especially relatives, will think of them if they expressed aloud their doubts and misgivings of what they hear ever Sunday. Think of the pastors who often get a flash of enlightenment on the idiocy that they teach the people but immediately shut off those skeptical thoughts because expressing them would cost them their careers and financial securities.
RE: The Unhealed Healer Thank you lkh for pointing these things out. I'll take it from here if you don't mind. The ego's plan for forgiveness is far more widely used than God's. This is because it is undertaken by unhealed healers, and is therefore of the ego. Let us consider the unhealed healer more carefully now. By definition, he is trying to give what he has not received. If an unhealed healer is a theologian, for example, he may begin with the premise, "I am a miserable sinner, and so are you." If he is a psychotherapist, he is more likely to start with the equally incredible belief that attack is real for both himself and the patient, but that it does not matter for either of them. I have repeatedly said that beliefs of the ego cannot be shared, and this is why they are unreal. How, then, can "uncovering" them make them real? Every healer who searches fantasies for truth must be unhealed, because he does not know where to look for truth, and therefore does not have the answer to the problem of healing. There is an advantage to bringing nightmares into awareness, but only to teach that they are not real, and that anything they contain is meaningless. The unhealed healer cannot do this because he does not believe it. All unhealed healers follow the ego's plan for forgiveness in one form or another. If they are theologian they are likely to condemn themselves, teach condemnation and advocate a fearful solution. Projecting condemnation on God, they make Him appear retaliative, and fear His retribution. What they have done is merely to identify with the ego, and by perceiving what it does, condemn themselves because of this confusion. It is understandable that there have been revolts against this concept, but to revolt against it is still to believe in it. Can you find light by analyzing the darkness, as the psychotherapist does, or like the theologian, by acknowledging darkness in yourself and looking for a distant light to remove it, while emphasizing the distance? Nothing will change unless it is understood, since light is understanding. A "miserable sinner" cannot be healed without magic, nor can an "unimportant mind" esteem itself without magic. Both forms of the ego's approach, then, must arrive at an impasse; the characteristic "impossible situation" to which the ego always leads. It may help someone to point out where he is heading, but the point is lost unless he is also helped to change his direction. The unhealed healer cannot do this for him, since he cannot do it for himself. The Holy Spirit is the only Therapist. He makes healing clear in any situation in which He is the Guide. You can only let Him fulfill his function. He needs no help for this. He will tell you exactly what to do to help anyone He sends to you for help, and will speak to him through you if you do not interfere. Remember that you choose the guide for helping, and the wrong choice will not help. But remember also that the right one will. Trust Him, for help is His function, and He is of God. As you awaken other minds to the Holy Spirit through Him, and not yourself, you will understand that you are not obeying the laws of the world. But the laws you are obeying work. "The good is what works" is a sound though insufficient statement. Only the good can work. Nothing else works at all. Peace, Jesus
Not exactly. What is real and what is an illusion are the difference between what exists and what does not exist. This is not a universe. It is not anything. Reality is not subject to time. Time is the first clue that what one thinks is real, is unreal. "Heaven and earth shall pass away" means that they will not continue to exist as separate states. Peace, Jesus
Here ya go troll. Notice I said time was an illusion. You cited Albert Einstein for why I was wrong without really explaining anything. Now you have be faced. ..for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one. Albert Einstein
A happy learner should never feel guilty for learning. This is so essential to learning that it should never be forgotten. The guiltless learner learns easily because his thoughts are free. Yet this entails the recognition that guilt is interference, not salvation, and serves no useful function at all. There is no compromise you can make with guilt, and escape the pain that only guiltlessness allays. Learning is living here, has creating is being in Heaven. Whenever the pain of guilt seems to attract you, remember that if you yield to it, you are deciding against your happiness, and will not learn how to be happy. Each day, each hour and minute, even each second, you are deciding between the crucifixion and the resurrection; between the ego and the Holy Spirit. The ego is the choice for guilt; the Holy Spirit the choice for guiltlessness. The power of decision is all that's yours. What you can decide between is fixed, because there are no alternatives except the truth and illusion. And there is no overlap between them, because they are opposites which cannot be reconciled and cannot both be true. You are guilty or guiltless, bound or free, unhappy or happy. Guiltlessness in invulnerability. An innocent mind cannot suffer. There is much "theology" that is a magnet for those who are choosing guilt, and are attracted to it. Yes, there is an attraction to guilt, offering benefits to a mind gone insane. The guiltless mind is not attracted to such theologies, and therefore does not suffer pain from them. To teach any form of guilt is an attack, and the attacker will be attacked in return. Those who accept the Atonement are invulnerable. But those who believe they are guilty will respond to guilt, because they think it is salvation, and will not refuse to see it and side with it. They believe that increasing guilt is self-protection. And they will fail to understand the simple fact that what they do not want must hurt them. All this arises because they do not believe that what they want is good. Seek not to appraise the worth of God's Son whom He created holy, for to do so is to evaluate his Father and judge against Him. Obviously, if you cannot see your brother as God's Son, you are liable to fall into this trap. And you will feel guilty for this imagined crime, which no one in this world or Heaven could possibly commit. The Holy Spirit teaches only that the "sin" of self-replacement on the throne of God is not a source of guilt. What cannot happen can have no effects to fear. Say to the Holy Spirit only, "Decide for me". Look now how little is asked of you. Say only the following words in italics, offering it as a little gift to the Holy Spirit, and see how He can now give you everything. See how one tiny change of mind changes one's crucifixion into resurrection. And being true, it is so simple that it cannot fail to be completely understood. Rejected yes, but not ambiguous. And if you choose against it now, it will not be because it is obscure, but rather that this little cost seemed, in your judgement, to be too much to pay for peace. This is the only thing that you need do for vision, happiness, release from pain and the complete escape from sin, all to be given you. Say only this, but mean it with no reservations, for here the power of salvation lies: I am responsible for what I see. I choose the feelings I experience, and I decide upon the goal I would achieve. And everything that seems to happen to me I ask for, and receive as I have asked. Deceive yourself no longer that you are helpless in the face of what happens to you. Acknowledge but that you have been mistaken, and all effects of your mistakes will disappear. It is impossible the Son of God be merely driven by events outside of him. It is impossible that happenings that come to him were not his choice. His power of decision is the determiner of every situation in which he seems to find himself by chance or accident. No accident or chance is possible within the universe as God created it, outside of which is nothing. Suffer, and you decided sin was your goal. Be happy, and you gave the power of decision to Him Who must decide for God for you. This is the little gift you offer to the Holy Spirit, and even this He gives to you to give to yourself. For by this gift is given you the power to release your savior, that he may give salvation unto you. Begrudge not this little offering. Withhold it, and you keep the world as now you see it. Give it away, and everything you see goes with it. Never was so much given for so little. Here is the world you do not want brought to the one you do. And here the one you do is given you because you want it. Yet for this, the power of your wanting must first be recognized. You must accept its strength, and not its weakness. You must perceive that what is strong enough to make a world can let it go, and can accept correction if it is willing to see that it was wrong. The world you see is but the idle witness that you were right. This witness is insane. You did this to yourself. See only this, and you will also see how circular the reasoning on which your "seeing" rests. Perhaps you do not see the need for you to give this little offering. Look closer, then, at what it is. And, very simply, see in it the whole exchange of separation for salvation. Peace, Jesus