why trading your own $ for a living is so alien.....

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by lilduckling, Sep 25, 2006.

  1. It's the only job in the world where if you have just a hair of your daily life out of place, it will effect your performace. You can't fake it. Your life must be in total order... ducks all lined up in a row, for you to have a chance at making $$ in this. Many have issues that they ignore or think it doesnt matter... and then chock up loses "still learning phase". The holy grail is not in a far away place.... its in your own house, locked in the room that only opens with a mental key.
  2. Out of curiosity, since I'm currently undergoing the transition to full time, full status trader, was there anything out of line with your life that trading forced you to change? If so, what was it?
  3. silk


    No pink bunnies allowed in the trading room...for starters.
  4. You are right - check out this book to help you get your ducks in a row. It is well worth it:

    The TAD Principle
  5. yes... i explained it in some posts a while back.... although i got lucky on my last all or nothing trade by correctly stating where the mkt was going..(the call is in one of the threads somewhere on the futures forum), i decided to take my $ and run. I spent quite a bit, and the rest i put it all on mutual funds (which are doing awesome). Dont know when i will trade again. I was not living..... just exsisting in a room all by myself for 8 to 12 hours a day... never enjoyng life.... like a prisoner. Sinse then i have gone through a transforming on my outlook in life... although i still follow the market some what and drop by here once in a great while.... i have found that there are much more inportant things in life... like living life to the fullest in a way you have no regrats if you were to die tommorrow.... like in a constant state of Zen.

    I will post about this soon under chit chat forum.
  6. One of our course categories: "Trading Psychology and Behavorial Consequences" - (fancy term for "don't let your stupid emotions affect your trading).

    1. Leave it at the door (arguments with spouse, road rage, "specialist screwed me", wife has boyfriend, etc. etc.).

    2. Don't brag about profits, or cry about losses...keep an even keel...this applies to spouses as well. One of my favorite stories is about one of my best friends/trader (we'll call him "Tony"), an excellent ex floor trader, hot blooded Italian with a beautiful Hispanic wife (also "hot bloode"). Tony would call home at the end of the trading day "Hi, wow did I have a good day, I made $48,000"...and his wife would say "That's goo dear, remember to pick up diapers on the way home"....next day "Hi dear, damnit, I lost $10,000 today" wife: "oh, too bad, don't forget the milk today". LOL. Nothing phased her, and she actually kept him more grounded.

    3. Don't buy any "toys" while in big positions. Just 2 days ago, one of our best traders bought a $60,000 boat while he had a couple of $million in open positions. He's down about $150,000 sine buying the boat (still up $600K for the year, but when you "try to get the money back quickly (that was spent for a "toy") it seems to always happen that you get a bad streak.
    (I know were not supposed to be superstitious, but even my brother attests to this phenomenon.

    4. If you have bad feeling about a trade, stomach churning, "fear"...then don't do it. Period.

    (sorry to sound childish here, but....)... "You need to be "nervous enough to be focused and on the edge of your seat" "but not so nervous that you sh$% yourself".


  7. <CITE>(sorry to sound childish here, but....)... "You need to be "nervous enough to be focused and on the edge of your seat" "but not so nervous that you sh$% yourself".



    Don Bright (not an alias)
    I would like to take this point and expound on it. It is a key to successful trading. <p>Complacency in the marketplace is a disease and usually a fatal one at that. So the question becomes what is the healthy state that is the alternative to this disease. The answer is tension. Tension should not be confused with stress which is another pathology unto itself. To effectively define this tension it can be compared with stress. Tension for the trader is entirely rational and simply based on both the understanding and appreciation of risk. Stress on the other hand is most commonly irrational and based on fear.<p>To put this tension in context, it would be useful to compare traders with performers and professional athletes. How many times have we heard performers such as opera singers talk about the nervous tension that they feel before they go on stage. To be successful, performers must possess confidence, but also understand that there is a risk of failure. The complacent performer performing without that nervous tension will usually be justifiably criticized as phoning in their performance. So it is with the trader, he must be confident and not fearful but always aware of the possibilties of the short term failure which compounded will spell long term failure.<p>I plead guilty to being a Yankee fan. And there is not a better example of the difference between tension and stress, than the example of Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter. When the television camera looks into the eyes of Rodriguez in the significant moment of a game one usually sees stress and fear not postive tension. This stress has led to a telling statistic. Rodriguez who sports a healthy batting average and RBI total was at one point past the halfway mark in the season second to last of all players in the majors in driving in runners from third with one out or less. A very telling statistic because a hit is not required to drive in the runner, a good fly ball out or a well placed ground ball out will usually suffice to drive in the run. Derek Jeter on the other hand when put in a tight situation communicates a healthy tension. The beauty of a game like baseball is that there is a great debate on who is the better player which depends on which numbers you value more. Raw batting statistics or World Series rings. I would argue that Derek Jeter would make a better trader than Rodriguez, because in the game that we play daily, it will be a healthy tension not stress that ultimately leads us to success.
  8. I like the performer parallel...absolutely similar! (Not being a Yankees fan, I can't comment on Jeter and Arod, LOL).

  9. That's not an issue of superstition but the effects on a trader's psychology that is had when he tries to make the market pay for his toys. Livermore talks about this - he has a quote that's quite good which I forget off hand. Regardless, the point is that when you believe the market can pay for your toys, you stop trading rationally and start trying to force opportunities. Suddenly the patience and discipline that worked so well to bring you success disappears and you're out a lot more money than you would ever have been had you just taken the money to buy the toy out of your trading account in the first place.
  10. Stress, not out of control can be a great motivator for those wired properly. LOL

    Experience on the battlefield with real bullets (traders = real money) is the only way one gets to know SELF. We all react in our own way when under the gun. Myself, i think being able to understand the consequences of any trade is half the fun.

    If a trader puts any trade on and has no idea of the outcome (win or lose) he/she is in for a tough ride as the wallet keeps getting thinner.

    Remember the BOY SCOUT motto..........Be prepared.... :)

    PS, i feel stress and get motivated when i start the day losing.....RATS!!!! I then feel stress to spend the rest of the day to at least get to even, including commissions, stress in such a situation draws me to FOCUS , and i except the challenge to do then what i call "A BATTLE" to get even. I trade more that way then and usually chip away at the loss. Works more often than not.
    #10     Sep 28, 2006