why THE HELL is it so easy to do the wrong thing...

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Gordon Gekko, Nov 16, 2002.

  1. I'm kind of being sarcastic, but kind of serious too.

    Have you considered keeping your line of thinking, but at the point of trade, do the exact opposite? (long vs short etc)?

    If you really DO have the exact patsy mindset, and people could get rich fading you, then why dont you fade yourself?

    Do it on a paper trading system - there are ones out there, I think e-signal has one for you to practice on.

    I think someone else nailed it though, not just entries, but the placement of your stops.

    Nitros right, your going to get philosophy

    Here's mine: Why go you have the name "Gordon Gekko" as a handle, with a sly sounding tagline one each post("You're walking around blind without a cane")

    And why have you posted 1400+ times? Generally most future sucessfull people use their eyes and ears, not their mouths until they figure out what it is they are trying to master.

    What I have been hinting at here is that you may have lacked the proper humility toward a pursuit known for it's ability to humiliate.

    Know what I'd do if I were you?

    Start OVER:

    1) Lose the GG handle, you have figured out that you arent him, and youve already admitted under that handle that you dont know what you are doing, so you are legit in moving on.

    2) Get a new one, and limit your postings to asking others about a particular this or that, but change you activities toward a diciplined study of each method: how to understand it, how to test it, how to move on to the next one. You can learn on this forum, but anyone can waste a lot of time and focus here too.

    3) Youve already admitted what you are doing does not work, that's great, that's actually the most impostant step.

    4) Get a paper trading account (a realistic electronic one, like on e-signal), start with a fixed fake capital, and try different methods - its not real money, so you can take the risk that is necessary for methods to work (someone said there could be a problem with your stops, that could be right) Focus on stops at different points. Follow methods you learn about carefully

    5) Once you can consistently win with a method, then DOCUMENT over and over again for yourself that it works

    6) Then try what works with real money - keep your stops where they worked with paper trades, but BET SMALL until you prove over and over to yourself that it works - examine your biggest drawdowns carefully.

    7) And this should have been earlier - at some point, trading will either work for you or it won't - dont set an exact deadline, it will hang over your head and presure you too much - but notice whether this is working for you or not over time, and move on to something else if it doesnt - most people dont make a living trading (most have never tried either)
     
    #31     Nov 16, 2002
  2. Gordo,

    Don't bother posting your trades.

    The problem.......is........between.........your..........ears.

    You need to see a trading psychologist, a professional.

    This is not something to be embarrassed about.

    Professional athletes have accepted the fact that their mind is the key to their success. It if common for professional athletes to see a sports psychologist, if not have one as part of their staff of trainers and coaches. So why don't traders understand this?

    You will never find a solution until you understand the real problem.

    It is quite egotistical for anyone to think that they can trade their own money and not need help from a coach, advisor, psychologist from time to time to help them spot what they can't see.

    Seeking help from the Forum in your case is a waste of time.

    See a professional if you seriously want to change your results.
     
    #32     Nov 16, 2002

  3. Are you in love with me? You're a freak.
     
    #33     Nov 16, 2002
  4. Hopefully someone different from the one you are currently seeing.
     
    #34     Nov 16, 2002
  5. Swish

    Swish

    This thread is sad, but hilarious at the same time.

    Gordon posts his frustration because he can't win and he always seems to lose money.

    Nitro then essentially says "post your trades, let us help you"

    Gordon then writes:

    i really want to ask you this question. i'm going to sound like i'm doubting you, but i'm not. i really just want to know how you'll respond.

    i remember in another post, your advice to me was that i should write down the value of tick, spoos, etc. on entry. but my question is (and this is the point of my whole thread), i've been able to lose a lot of money WITHOUT looking at tick, etc. so wouldn't it be possible to also make money without looking?

    again, i'm not trying to question your trading ability. i'm just having a hard time understanding why i can lose money SO EASILY...yet to make money, i need to look at tick, spoos, etc.?



    Essentially, here is a guy that complains because he cannot win, but then disregards the recommendations of senior, more experienced traders - and then wonders why he cannot win.

    Gordon, trading is a tough business that requires loads of mental discipline and the ability to recognize when you're wrong and to self-correct. You're not even moving to correction with the help and suggestions presented herein.

    I feel for you - but your approach to trading is stymied by arrogance or ignorance or both - take the time to dissect your trades - you'll be amazed at all the stupid mistakes you make when you're learning a strategy.
     
    #35     Nov 16, 2002
  6. I remember a similar thread about 2 months ago where GG said that he had lost too much money and was now feeling the pressure of someone who was undercapitalized and making emotional trading decisions...

    The simple fact of the matter is: If you do not have the adequate capital to trade, especially in these lightning fast, news sensitive, illiquid at times markets, then you are going to be so overly sensitive to any movement that your chances of "staying commited" to any position are basically shot...

    GG, you are trading emotional capital...Its pretty clear that right now all you are trying to do is "get it back" and instead of trading pro-actively, you are trading reactively...I bet the majority of your trades you emotionally and reactively take the loss because you are trading so "tight" to the market you cannot even manage to let the trade develop...

    Like I mentioned two months ago...you are way too emotionally involved in this now...
     
    #36     Nov 16, 2002
  7. Winston

    Winston

    Swtrader exellent post, still have tears from laughing at some of those lines. I wouldn't take this too seriously though, GG is here strictly for entertainment.:)
     
    #37     Nov 16, 2002
  8. dbphoenix

    dbphoenix

    There's always the possibility that he doesn't want to. If he did want to, then he'd do what's necessary.

    --Db
     
    #38     Nov 16, 2002
  9. ges

    ges

    Gordon,

    Thanks for a wonderfully honest post. I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but will. You'll no doubt get some crap from the know-it-alls who may or may not be successful traders here (one thing is for sure, the number of people on this board who claim to be successful is without a doubt exagerrated...few people can be completely honest about this with themselves, much less others).

    In talking to my tax accountant this last year (this is a firm that does lots of trader tax returns), she commented on how almost all the futures traders had huge losses. Fits with what we all know, but not necessarily what you'll read on these boards.

    Human nature really screws us up in trading. I suspect there are some sociopathic types who make great traders precisely because their emotions don't enter into it. Just like the military has found that there are certain people who are born killers because they lack some normal human responses to killing. They can otherwise be model citizens, but on the battlefield they are much more efficient killers. OTOH, the military has also found in recent years that it is possible to make good killers out of most soldiers with the right training, so there is hope for us emotion-ridden traders.

    (book reference: "On Killing".

    g
     
    #39     Nov 16, 2002
  10. The big problem with this method, at least for me, is that your brain is adaptive. Once you start making money (or not), soon you will start to question whether when you "think you should short, so you decide to go long", if you aren't learning the proper times to indeed go short. So then you question whether or not doing to opposite thing is correct. You start flipping around and you are right back were you started. So, I guess I would not recommend that as a method, even though it seems like a good idea. Just my opinion of course.
     
    #40     Nov 16, 2002