First I will say that I have never been a soldier, so its not my opinion based on any actual experience I have. I have two older brothers who are in the Army. One is in Iraq, one is in Colombia. When I got out of HS I wanted to join too but they would not take me due to health reasons. That was almost an acceptable excuse, so the ass kicking I got was only half of what it could been. Anyway, I think that all of the people who have been expecting the Iraqi army to roll over have really misunderstood the nature of people, and soldiers in particular. If any of you here have actually served in combat and I'm wrong, please correct me. I think that the reasons many people join the army have to do are varied. God, Country, stay out of jail (Conscripts) but when it gets down to the actual fighting I don't think any of them are thinking of that. And the people we have who have won medals for bravery etc I doubt were thinking about that or about being a hero. They simply fought because someone else was shooting at them and they are there to protect their buddies. No one wants to let their friends down, no one wants to see his buddy hurt or dead. So they fight. Regardless of believing in what the larger political purpose of the battle is, when it gets right down to the fight they are all there for each other. I also think that for the politicans to have thought that the Iraqi people would welcome us in was kind of silly. No one wants to see his or her country attacked. Most people will try to defend it. Remember how we all felt after 9/11. Remember how unpopular Bush was on Sept 10th, and then that his ratings were near 85% a week later. People will come together when their nation is under attack, regardless in most cases of any other differences they have. All this is just my humble opion and as Dennis Miller likes to say, I could be wrong. I'd like to hear what others have to say about this though. Brandon
I think the only people who are really loyal are the Republican Guard and other members of the elite who have personally benefitted from Sadam. The last I heard there are about 20,000 republican guard who are loyal and battle tested. From what I have been able to gather, if we kill them the war is effectively over.
kill 20,000 and you´ll have at least 60,000 hateful brothers/fathers/uncles/sons left to fight your "liberation" (occupation) forces after the war - conservatively calculated.
mondo, Once again you are on target. A police state like Iraq employs vast numbers of cadres to oppress the population. Like Cuba, many have been brainwashed to believe the dictator is a father figure. Others accurately foresee a bleak future. We need to use the Iraqi resistance more effectively to make this case, but I have little doubt the majority of the Iraqi population will be overjoyed when Saddam is gone. It must however be made clear to them that any further death and destruction is the fault of the remaining resistance. To the extent that factions continue to fight us, I think we should stop worrying so much about civilian casualities and hit them with overwhelming force. We need to get this job done now and not let the Turks or Iranians start getting ideas. Our airborne troops in northern Iraq are very exposed and we need to get armor up there to them quickly.
yes, and the republican guard are hated like the "SS" was hated in Nazi germany, nobody will cry for them.
It is not brainwash ( they know exactly who is who and what they stand for) it is more of a bribing system ( you have to remember most of these guys came from nothing and owe their lavish lifestyle to Saddam ) therefore they are loyal ...... That is why I disagree with msfe, they are not fighting for their freedom, because there is no freedom; there are only perks and when they figure out that there will be no more perks ( because the end is near ) why would they continue fighting???...I will give my life for freedom, but id rather live than have the biggest house on the block.......peace
msfe, since you are good at math can you calculate how many the 20,000 have raped, killed, beaten, mutilated and oppressed? And then could you calculate their families who seek revenge on those 20,000 and would dance on their graves? I look forward to your calculation because I'm not that good at 'rithmatic. But I'm not holding my breath because I know that you don't engage in dialogue but only in cheap shots and retreats. Which makes me think....did you train the Iraqi army? If so you did a great job.