Quote from austinp: Define the term <b>trader</b> That is easy. One who makes a living out of trading. In plain, his cost of living is covered from profits from his trading. Jesse had lived for 48 years as such. That is done on equal footing with everyone else... no inside information or special privilege. Mind you insider info wasn't illegal until 1933 or so. More on it below... Most of his huge winnings came from backroom deals and inside knowledge that let him take positions which worked. Or not. So there was this 15-16 year old boy and insiders were feeding him? Of course I am just mocking you, because he made a name for himself LONG before he used insider info. Boy plunger, ring a bell? Sure, later on he had some insider info deals, but that is inaccurate that he made most of his money on such a deals. Who were the insiders who told him about the upcoming Crash? Twice?? Get real... He also tried to corner some markets with supposed "inside information" that blew up, when he got conned himself. 1. This just shows that insider info is not always a 100% win game. You need skill to execute it correctly. 2. He acknowledged himself the cotton deal was a loser because he broke his own rules: never work with others, use others tips. 3. He successfully cornered the tobacco market, but the guys on the other side went to Washington and the Price Fixing Committee fixed on a maximum price. In other words, he got screwed politically. What part of that had to do with superior trading performance on equal footing with others? Perhaps a 15 year old clerk who recognizes certain patterns thus able to predict future price movements??? Also, if he used insider info all the time, why did he employ clerks writting the prices up on big boards? After all it was all fixed already!!! Jesse had no consistent system or method to create a lasting edge. He threw sh*t at the proverbial walls enough times, had some of it stick for big hits and banked some rolls. This is just plain old ignorance. You surely don't believe one can make a living in the long run like that? Why can't somebody use the same "no consistent system" method today and make a living? His edge and "adult life" wealth all came from backroom deals on inside information. This is getting old. Evidence please... Oh yes. He got inside info on the upcoming San Francisco earthquake. I got it... Here's my beef. Everyone goes around quoting his supposed quotes like they are gospel. Because quite a few of them are like that. What do you think why his book is mentioned BY SOME OF THE BEST traders as the best trading book? His pivot point strategy still works 100 years later... One that comes to mind is Jack Whittaker... man who won the $315mil Powerball jackpot on 12/25/2002. Great analogy! You are comparing a guy with 1000s of trades with another guy with one lucky strike. I understand your beef, but it comes from not knowing how he traded...
Hey, I have just found an online version of Reminiscences....Enjoy! http://www.trading-naked.com/library/jesse_livermore.pdf I also have Smitten's Livermore bio, it is readable, although not up to biography standard. I reread the coffee market cornering part. That was actually based on fundamentals and was more investing than trading. He first actually lost money because he was early with his conviction, then he played it right and eventually got screwed by the government.
Pekelo, Thanks ! Did Jesse also had to sell trading video's like Austinp to survive ? Which traders mentioned Jesse's book as one of the best? Was that in market wizards ?
I don't remember, but yes, they were in the market wizards books. The coffee cornering story is around page 150 in the pdf file. He held the position for almost a year...It was actually just common sense investing.... Edit: here is a neat trick to find the quotes: 1. Go to Amazon.com and find the Market wizards books. 2. You can search inside the book, so I typed "reminiscences" into the search 3. I got 5 hits in the first market wizzards. 4. You can repeat it with the other 2 sequels... OK, I actually own the book, so I looked it up, just to prove Austin dead wrong: Richard Dennis, Ed Seykota (I was inspired and influenced by it), David Ryan, Mark Weinstein, Brian Gelber (the book I learnt the most from, read it a dozen times) Using "Livermore" as search word: PTJ (Livermore, one of the greatest speculators of all time), William O'Neil, (It is never your thinking that makes money, it is the sitting)
<i>"Did Jesse also had to sell trading video's like Austinp to survive?"</i> I love your ass u mption, <b>virgin</b> (huge laugh). I likewise ass u me you are a successful trader. Maybe we're both right, who knows? (belly laugh) Here's my final word on Livermore: he is what you believe. We all have a right to our opinion, and I respect everyone else' opinion equal to my own. I've read the book, I know his story, nothing about my viewpoint will change, nor do I expect anyone else' viewpoint to change, either. Hopefully I'll have the chance to spend time with Jesse in the next life... I'm 100% certain he could regale us all with fascinating tales. If anything I ever said about him was wrong or non-factual, I'll gladly apologize now or directly to him in the next world. And that, my friends (both of ya) is the final word on Jesse Livermore to be uttered by me ever again. Enjoy the book, study his story, take from it what you will. Have a great weekend!
Didn't Livermore commit suicide as a result of being tortured emotionally by women his whole life? Like moths to a flame, crazed women to money.....
Livermore was absolutely brilliant. He failed because he didn't know the concept of portfolio rebalancing, even as brilliant as he was. One cannot be 100% equities (long or short) 100% of the time, no matter how brilliant one is.
austinp, you think that trading an account up to $64K is comparable to what Jesse did? After the 29 crash he was worth $100 million -- inflation adjusted over $1 billion. So once you make another $999,936,000 you can come back with your assinine "jesse sucked" drivel and somebody may listen.
I don't think he failed due to not knowing the concept of portfolio rebalancing.. or anything like that... The great ones just wanna make it more fun..... I know I do... Sometimes, its more fun to see if I can make a horrible trade after I make a series of winning trades. You get more satisfaction from pain. Knowing everything that Jesse had to go through, endure etc... etc.. I firmly believe he had a wild streak in him. (ok ok.. that was an understatement..).. but, isn't life more fun when you are doing what you are not supposed to do?
Hehe, I knew you were a bullshit artist, and you just proved me right. Quote from austinp: Here's my final word on Livermore: he is what you believe. No, he wasn't like Jesus. Jesus is what you believe. Livermore had the yacht to prove it. Jesus only had an empty tomb... We all have a right to our opinion, Except when it is against all facts. Then it is called dellusion. and I respect everyone else' opinion equal to my own. I, on the other hand don't respect yours. In this thread you never dared to address my evidence or point, because you knew you were wrong. Please feel free to show us your evidence that Jesse made his fortune using inside info. I don't think you will... I've read the book, I know his story, You MIGHT have read the book,but you learnt NOTHING. I think readers just will take Seykota's, PTJ's and other market wizards' words over yours.... Now go in peace and educate yourself...