Why it's not worth training friends...

Discussion in 'Trading' started by RangeTrader, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. If you can't see what your looking at in one glance then you have a metal belief block and don't understand how the market works.

     
    #21     Jun 9, 2012
  2. I love vague answers! U r the wise guru!!!

    I don't have any metal belief blocks. In fact, I am listening to metal right now.
     
    #22     Jun 9, 2012
  3. You answered exactly 0% of my question.

    While it is true that you have to trade bear moves slightly differently from bull moves, it is no less true that bear moves have rules of their own.

    Why do you find yourself needing to universalize what is clearly your limited experience? Can't you just say "Hey, here is something I found to be true, but it might not hold in all cases"? It would decrease the unwarranted arrogance of your threads immensely.
     
    #23     Jun 9, 2012
  4. TOS some times refers to Tom O. Sossinoff. A very cool trader.

    T&S is a term used to pull out of all the market activity just the Time and the Sale size between two parties at that time (a transaction).

    The topic of this thread is why it is unwise to train friends.

    If a friend of the OP believes the OP's comments o who controls price movement, then he will have difficulty learning.

    The OP is mostly commenting about the limits of price movement, i. e., when price stops moving in a given direction.

    The other side of that coin is: that which causes markets to move.

    If you are considering teaching a friend, it may be a good idea to address both sides of the coin. Don brought up getting a full view.

    With respect to the two sides of the coin, which friends may not understand, one side is operated by the majority the other side is operated by this minority. Respectively, the big money stops the market from moving further and the minority controls the rapid price movement which makes a lot of money for anyone "holding" a position at that time.

    the OP, so far, has not put up a display that shows how the majority and the minority are concurrently operating.

    The OP spoke of how the big money works and a pattern can illustrating these workings. Another person asked about his wording that he used in this explanation he gave.

    to see what the wording means and how these two opposing forces (the majority and the minority) operate, turn your attention to the depth of market (DOM).

    The majority puts up the big walls that you see T&S bounce off of.

    The minority is the sparsely populated limit orders on the bid and the offer.

    To see the dynamic of both the majority and the minority interact, consider using the market rule whereby a limit order becomes a market order once priior trade occurs on that level of price (See DOM ladder displays)

    Big money doing non trading activity becomes THE major activity in markets as a consequence of this market rule.

    Big money pays the market in values called slippage when the converted market orders are faced by the minority sparcely populated levels.

    As T&S reports out bouncing off the piles of "targets" the OP assigns to the big money players. The big money target limit orders have to be pulled, unfulilled, to avoid slippage in the immediate future.

    In prior posts the OP referred to this as "repositioning". the repositioning is not an advantageous action taken by the "repositioners"

    How can big money majority traders avoid this handicap they have and that the minority does not have? Training a friend may not have to address this. So as I address this, I know a skilled moderator will delete this post pronto.

    A skilled big money trader uses an algorthym not yet mentioned in ET over the years. It is not a secret it is just beyond the scope of ET participants and most of big money as big money demonstrates.

    Levels on the DOM increase and decrease because of about four "games" or, better named, "strategies". If big money is operating on a level it is known immediately from the coarseness of the delta (increasing or decreasing). Secondly, this delta is compared to the delta of the T&S Time and Sales). A ratio is used in order to have an immediate go/no go signalled result.

    big money skilled traders know that setting a target at a value under no go is "futile". They know this because of another rule called FIFO. So the smarter of the big money, move away from the majority to the minority.

    The manner of this shift from majority to minority has a name (see Harris page 199).

    By using the "futility test signal" explained above, this key group obtains another adjectival modifier in their more precise designation. (cast your eye upward on page 199.)

    to make training friends more easy (under item 2 of the OP), use both ides of the coins. Second, train the learner to use the signal generators that distinguish the small group of experts that do not get caught in the big money traps being explained to you by the OP.

    It may be recognizable that a learner and his trainer can actually focus on who controls the market, in the minority, which is controlling the market. All the majority does is make the pattern. The OP has explained the making of the pattern (a visualization defined by extremes).

    Pehaps it will become recognizable that all money is made by what is between the extremes. A person has to be "holding" between extremes.

    How does a friend of a learner grasp how the learner best experiences "holding" between extremes? He "teaches" (in this thread) his learning friend the rule for holding. (See futility test signal)
     
    #24     Jun 9, 2012
  5. Dura

    Dura

    No, I sure havent.

    Thank You.
     
    #25     Jun 9, 2012
  6. Dura

    Dura

    I just checked out Traders Audio. For the S&P 500 Pit Broadcast it's $125.00. I hope that's annually if not a one time fee. $125.00 a month seems a bit absurd.
     
    #26     Jun 9, 2012
  7. jnbadger

    jnbadger

    Traders will spend stupid amounts of money on worthless things to become better traders.

    But I think Ben is worth it, depending on your style of trading.
     
    #27     Jun 9, 2012
  8. Dura

    Dura

    Why?
     
    #28     Jun 9, 2012
  9. jnbadger

    jnbadger

    I think you just answered you own question. If you don't think it is valuable to your trading, then don't get it.

    Some guys who trade with Don like to "play market maker". Listening to the pit, in addition to watching the futures and NYSE tick chart, seems to help those guys.
     
    #29     Jun 9, 2012
  10. those days are long gone. It was good for those of us who grew up in the real world. But these kids today are all digital, and that's the way the new market moves.

    But I would definately pay for some old transcripts of the pits that I use to listen to.

    for that matter, I would pay for the old Louise Rukeyser Wall Street Week from Owens Mills Maryland on PBS from 20 years ago, based on nothing more than the idea that "Those who don't repeat history are doomed to remember it."
     
    #30     Jun 9, 2012