I have been in the software engineering industry for 21 years. This whole "shortage of qualified programmers and engineers" thing is laughable. This cyclical line of BS has been going on since 1989-90. It repeats about every 7-10 years. First, there was this massive "shortage" of programmers and engineers in 1989, so we needed to con Congress into getting new increases in H1-B quotas so we could be "competitive". Funny, thing less than 1 year later all of a sudden there is a recession in 1990-1991 and a bunch of U.S. programmers and engineers are being laid off. Some shortage. Strange that the H1-B quota was never lowered back down at the point there was an obvious surplus of engineers/programmers. Then came the days of quiet unpaid overtime (1992-1994) - the unspoken expectation that a programmer/engineer should be happy to still have a job and should put up with whatever BS such as endless 70-80 hour workweeks with no overtime that management could think up. Once the economy came back by 1995 or so, the experienced programmers/engineers started to wise up and negotiated better deals, became contractors or left their present company for greener pastures at other companies that would pay a competitive wage. The next time you heard this crud was right around 1998-9 - remember we have a "shortage" of qualified programmers to deal with Y2K, etc. so please raise the H1-B quotas, allow more foreign students into colleges, etc. Well, then comes 2000-2001 the massive implosion of high tech jobs in the dot-com bubble burst, the telecomm depression, etc. Massive layoffs everywhere. Employers were happy because suddenly there is this large pool of skilled desperate engineers willing to work for 60-70% of their pay just 2-3 years before. Contracting died off around this time (2001) because there was such a large pool of available labor that there was no point paying high dollars for contractors when you could lock in an employee at below-normal wages. It took probably 4-5 years or more just to get to the point of respectable wages - in some areas it has not recovered yet. Funny thing, during this time a lot of young people in the U.S. looked at what happened to the "skilled engineers" and wisely chose not to bust their ass getting a Comp Sci/Engineering BS/MS degree only to be employed at average or so wages, and be subject to the uncertainties of an outsource-happy corporate environment during the next recession, and work massive overtime for nothing. Instead, they chose to go into health-care, because that was where the "shortage" was. Now here we are hearing the same BS again in 2006-2007. Whenever you hear this "shortage" line being talked up, it is really just a way of saying corporations are finding that they can't underpay and still get the qualified workers that they need, be able to get free overtime out of them, etc because people can still negotiate a better deal somewhere else, so we need to increase the supply at the low end ( H1-B VISA, new college grads, etc ) and create another surplus. These are the same idiots that can't differentiate between person A who has true software engineering skills (architect, write a detailed design, optimize a system for real-time requirements, implement, handle multi-threading in all of its phases including debugging complex situations, enhance existing systems, understands event-driven systems, understands assembly language, etc ) and person B (fresh out of school, or in one of these outsourcing firms in India) who is coherent in the latest buzzword bingo of Internet stuff, database languages, XML, Java, etc. but couldn't debug their way out of a paper bag without help. These "B-type" people are competent usually only within an existing structure - more like template implementors at best. But you can't blame them - who would try to become A when you are only being paid for B? But it's a situation where you get what you pay for. If you want to pay $50-60K, you are going to get a junior level person, or some kind of mediocre at best engineer who has outdated skills, or maybe a person who is lying on their resume' or a person who has been fired from other companies for personality issues, or somebody that only wants to work 40 hours a week ever and do the bare minimum, etc. The people that are really experienced quality engineers are going for maybe $90-120K or more and are not going to even look at those jobs. Maybe if they were desperate due to some personal situation, they might take $75-$90K, but not $50-60K. But, hey remember all of that BS during the last 5-7 years about the productivity expansion, and how it was really great that corporate America was getting so much more productive - well the benefits of it never really reached the engineers - it was just pocketed at the top as always ( remember "Trickle Down" theory....lol ), while the companies just laid off experienced people, outsourced jobs to India and elsewhere at a frantic pace, and took huge ridiculous stock option grants for themselves, while at the same time using accounting rules (Sarbanes-Oxley) as an excuse to stiff most of the mid-level and low-level engineers on options grants and equity participation. Strange how all the young people don't want to become engineers anymore. Can't say I blame them. I probably would not go into this field if I were 18 again now.
That about sums it up too. Better to analyze and write code for myself than play their stupid game for chump change or knowing that I'm just doing it until they can outsource it to India or until they bring in an H1B for me to train to replace me. I believe I read it was 45% of all IT people that lost their jobs after 9/11, either due to the Y2K work having been done, the business bankruptcies, or Internet Bubble bursting. I laid everyone off and quit the business in the end. I meet them every day, working as contractors doing drywall or whatever. But for the Grace of God, there go I, as Coleman Powell said. I was also a 24/7 person. There wasn't anything I wouldn't do to make those systems work. But that kind of sacrifice isn't something companies should expect for free. Loyalty is a two way street.
Bob, too funny because I was in telecom sales and used to call on IT ppl. like you for VoiP phone systems at the enterprise level. 1st quarter 2001 I almost broker the company record for all time in a quarter. After 911, I would call prospects like yourself, and I couldn't get a person to even meet me for a 1st appt. A couple of IT manager told me if they even made an appt. with me the CFO would fire them for considering an expenditure. I had to fire sale equip. to make quota or lose my job. I bounced back a bit, but it was never the same, agreed.
Out of curiosity, do H1 visa workers here in the U.S. pay federal, state and social security taxes to the U.S. or do they pay taxes on their income to their home country?
They pay the U.S. federal, state, and ss taxes just like you and I. Its not up to them, its something thier U.S. employer is legally bound to do.
Thanks for the reply. So I guess our government doesn't really care if jobs are outsourced or companies use H1 workers here since even though the workers make less and pay less taxes, the corporations make up for it and end up paying more in taxes since they'll report a higher profit by having lower expenses. Looking at the below link, it seems that most large corporations are in the 35% federal tax bracket, whereas most individuals aren't. http://www.smbiz.com/sbrl001.html
Maverick, Interesting take on comp sci/ engineering grads as trading candidates. A good friend is a vp at patsystems and he says the samething about hiring people with regards to trading and comp sci. Its very hard to find people who understand both. The IT people who run my office are totally clueless about markets. It drives me nuts.
IT != compsci !!@@!@!! computer science has nothing to do with programming or system administration: it's all math and algorithm development. The sad thing is there are many compsci programs and universities that focus on programming and development, adding to the confusion. I have a compsci degree from a small, private school and I take offense when other compsci people from the local state school get compared to me. Several of my friends had 4 years of visual basic and HTML. I had 5 of algorithm analysis, 4 calc classes, and enough matrix algebra to make most people slip into a coma.
I'm from the the days of "Data Processing" departments. There was no MIS yet, let alone IT. Back then they didn't have degrees in Comp Sci that I recall, either. I just liked creating systems and making them work. There isn't anything out there for me anymore. I don't even look at the help wanted. I wonder how many other traders here are here because their job or business disappeared since 2000?
The tech jobs that disappeared after 2000 were the "fluff" types jobs like Web-designers. I knew people who did those jobs and you didn't need a CS degree to do it, so the labor supply exceeded demand and the 2000 dotcom bubble ended up purging those excess jobs. Good software engineers and systems architects will always have a job for the foreseeable future. In the distant future, though, who knows. The world's always changing.