While it's hard to find proof that small amounts of meat are harmful/ I dont believe they are/ I found this for meat and s. fat lovers: http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/45/The_Proof_is_in_the_SPECT_Scan.htm "The Proof is in the SPECT Scan Atkins claimed that one could "Reverse heart disease with filet mignon!"[320] Until the year 2000, all people had were changes in cardiac risk factors like cholesterol to evaluate the impact of the Atkins Diet on the heart. But then a landmark study was published which, for the first and only time, actually measured what was happening to peoples' arteries on this kind of diet. The results were shocking. Richard Fleming, M.D., an accomplished nuclear cardiologist, enrolled 26 people into a comprehensive study of the effects of diet on cardiac function. Using echocardiograms, he could observe the pumping motion of the heart, and with the latest in nuclear imaging technology--so-called SPECT scans--he was able to actually directly measure the blood flow within the coronary arteries, the blood vessels that bring blood to the heart muscle and allow it to pump. It is when one of these coronary arteries gets blocked that people have a heart attack. Fleming then put them all on a low saturated fat, high carbohydrate diet--a whole foods vegetarian diet--the kind that has been proven to not only stop heart disease, but to in some cases actually reverse it, opening up clogged arteries.[375] A year later the echocardiograms and SPECT scans were repeated. By that time, however, 10 of his patients had, unbeknownst to him, jumped on the low carb bandwagon and begun following the Atkins Diet or Atkins-like diets. All of a sudden, Dr. Fleming had an unparalleled research opportunity dropped in his lap. Here he had extensive imaging of 10 people following a low carb diet and 16 following a high carb diet. What would their hearts look like at the end of the year? We can talk about risk factors all we want, but compared to the high carb group, did the coronary heart disease of the patients following the Atkins Diet improve, worsen, or stay the same? Those sticking to the whole-foods vegetarian diet showed a reversal of their heart disease as expected. Their partially-clogged arteries literally got cleaned out, and blood flow to their hearts through their coronary arteries increased 40%. What happened to those who abandoned the high carb diet and switched over to the Atkins Diet, chowing down on bunless cheeseburgers? Their condition significantly worsened. All that saturated fat and cholesterol in their diet clogged their arteries further--the blood flow to their hearts was cut 40%. Thus, the only study on the Atkins Diet to actually measure arterial blood flow showed widespread acceptance of a high saturated fat diet like Atkins could be heralding a future epidemic of fatal heart attacks.[521] Validation that "If you were trying to damage your heart," wrote the Center for Science in the Public Interest, "you couldn't do much better than to eat a cheeseburger."[376] Maybe filet mignon doesn't work after all. The blood flow scans have been posted online so people can see the evidence for themselves. The Atkins Diet, according to the American Dietetic Association, is “a heart attack waiting to happen.”[490] "We worry about this," explains Dr. James W. Anderson, Professor of Medicine and Clinical Nutrition at the University of Kentucky School of Medicine, "because many of the people who love these diets are men aged 40 to 50, who like their meat. They may be 5 years from their first heart attack. This couldn't be worse for them. Did you know that for 50% of men who die from heart attacks, the fatal attack is their first symptom? They will never know what this diet is doing to them."[377] Emerging evidence also suggests that ketogenic diets may "create metabolic derangement conducive to cardiac conduction abnormalities and/or myocardial dysfunction"--in other words cause other potentially life-threatening heart problems as well. Ketogenic diets may cause a pathological enlargement of the heart called cardiomyopathy, which is reversible, but only if the diet is stopped in time.[378] The Atkins Corporation denies that Dr. Atkins' own cardiomyopathy-induced heart attack, hypertension, and blocked arteries had anything to do with his diet.[379]" On Monday I'm picking up my blood tests results after switching to whole plant food diet, we will see It's been over a year..
One more, for red meat lovers : http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/2/335.full "Our findings indicated a direct relationship between red meat intake, plasma CRP concentrations, and elevated risk of metabolic syndrome. These associations remained significant even after extensive adjustments were made for potential confounders. To our knowledge, this is the first study directly relating red meat intake to the risk of metabolic syndrome. However, the association between red meat intake and metabolic syndrome in the framework of dietary patterns has been reported previously (13–15). In a study of Japanese-Brazilians (14), men, not women, in the highest tertile of red meat intake had a 4.7 times greater risk for developing metabolic syndrome. Inflammation has been reported to be involved in the pathogenesis of metabolic syndrome (23). CRP is a useful marker of inflammation in vivo (24). We are aware of only 1 study in this regard that has assessed lean red meat intake in relation to inflammation, with no significant correlation between these 2 (18). Our study indicated that high consumption of red meat is significantly associated with elevated levels of inflammation measured as plasma CRP concentration. This inconsistency might be explained by the lower content of SFA in lean red meat. In this study, BMI was a mediator in the red meat-CRP association. Several factors might mediate the association of red meat intake with metabolic syndrome. CRP was a mediator in this association. BMI also was a mediator in this relationship. This association was not completely mediated through plasma CRP concentrations. However, plasma CRP concentrations were a step mediator in this regard, because after adjusting for the CRP concentration, this association was attenuated but still remained significant. However, CRP is also related to BMI. Previous studies have suggested a significant relationship between red meat intake, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular risk factors (9–12). Cholesterol (14), iron (25), or SFA (14) content of red meat might explain these associations to some extent. Clinical studies have shown no significant effect of iron supplementation per day on plasma CRP concentrations (26,27). Heme iron has been shown to differently affect diabetes risk than non-heme iron. Moreover, heme iron from red meat has been suggested to differ from other sources in affecting human health, but the exact mechanism is not clear yet. Therefore, further evidence is required to clarify the possible role of iron in inflammation (27). To explore the potential mechanisms in the current study, we adjusted our statistical analyses for total iron and protein intakes separately. After these adjustments, the association of red meat intake, inflammation, and metabolic syndrome was attenuated but still significant. It must be kept in mind that total iron and protein intakes were adjusted and due to limitations in food analysis; we could not obtain data for dietary iron, particularly heme iron, and protein intakes from red meat. Therefore, more studies are required to clarify the potential mechanisms by which red meat intake affects inflammation and metabolic syndrome. We also categorized processed meat in the red meat category. Processed meats in Iran contain higher amounts of additives and sodium. These ingredients may also help explain the relationships we reached." Regards
dr oz had Gary Taubes, the guy who has taken over the atkins bandwagon, on his show a few months ago promoting his hi fat diet. dr oz challenged him by offering to do tests on him for heart and overall health. traubes refused any testing.
Those eating more meat consumed ~250 more calories per day were fatter, obese, with waist circumferences 6" greater on avg. "Compared with subjects in the lowest quintile, those in the top quintile of red meat intake were younger, less physically active, and had higher BMI and waist circumference. Furthermore, metabolic syndrome and its components (high serum triacylglycerol (TG) concentrations, low serum HDL-cholesterol (HDL-C), and high systolic blood pressure) were more prevalent among those in the upper quintile than among those in the lowest quintile" In short, they ate too much food period. This is another worthless paper. A complete mess.
i posted this sometime ago, maybe you missed it? Dietary intervention to reverse carotid atherosclerosis. Shai I, Spence JD, Schwarzfuchs D, Henkin Y, Parraga G, Rudich A, Fenster A, Mallett C, Liel-Cohen N, Tirosh A, Bolotin A, Thiery J, Fiedler GM, Blüher M, Stumvoll M, Stampfer MJ; DIRECT Group. Source Department of Epidemiology and Health Systems Evaluation, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Beer-Sheva 84105, Israel. irish@bgu.ac.il Abstract BACKGROUND: It is currently unknown whether dietary weight loss interventions can induce regression of carotid atherosclerosis. METHODS AND RESULTS: In a 2-year Dietary Intervention Randomized Controlled Trial-Carotid (DIRECT-Carotid) study, participants were randomized to low-fat, Mediterranean, or low-carbohydrate diets and were followed for changes in carotid artery intima-media thickness, measured with standard B-mode ultrasound, and carotid vessel wall volume (VWV), measured with carotid 3D ultrasound. Of 140 complete images of participants (aged 51 years; body mass index, 30 kg/m(2); 88% men), higher baseline carotid VWV was associated with increased intima-media thickness, age, male sex, baseline weight, blood pressure, and insulin levels (P<0.05 for all). After 2 years of dietary intervention, we observed a significant 5% regression in mean carotid VWV (-58.1 mm(3 95% confidence interval, -81.0 to -35.1 mm(3); P<0.001), with no differences in the low-fat, Mediterranean, or low-carbohydrate groups (-60.69 mm(3), -37.69 mm(3), -84.33 mm(3), respectively; P=0.28). Mean change in intima-media thickness was -1.1% (P=0.18). A reduction in the ratio of apolipoprotein B(100) to apolipoprotein A1 was observed in the low-carbohydrate compared with the low-fat group (P=0.001). Participants who exhibited carotid VWV regression (mean decrease, -128.0 mm(3); 95% confidence interval, -148.1 to -107.9 mm(3)) compared with participants who exhibited progression (mean increase, +89.6 mm(3); 95% confidence interval, +66.6 to +112.6 mm(3)) had achieved greater weight loss (-5.3 versus -3.2 kg; P=0.03), greater decreases in systolic blood pressure (-6.8 versus -1.1 mm Hg; P=0.009) and total homocysteine (-0.06 versus +1.44 mumol/L; P=0.04), and a higher increase of apolipoprotein A1 (+0.05 versus -0.00 g/L; P=0.06). In multivariate regression models, only the decrease in systolic blood pressure remained a significant independent modifiable predictor of subsequent greater regression in both carotid VWV (beta=0.23; P=0.01) and intima-media thickness (beta=0.28; P=0.008) levels. CONCLUSIONS: Two-year weight loss diets can induce a significant regression of measurable carotid VWV. The effect is similar in low-fat, Mediterranean, or low-carbohydrate strategies and appears to be mediated mainly by the weight loss-induced decline in blood pressure. Clinical Trial Registration- http://www.clinicaltrials.gov. Those eating low carb actually had greater regression of the arterial wall thickness though the difference between low carb and low fat was not statistically significant. Low carb was at least as effective.
Good article: Needless heart surgery? Houston doctor argues that a plant-based diet works better than a bypass BY JOEL LUKS 07.08.11 | 05:44 pm Angiograms. Angioplasty and cardiac stents. Bypass surgeries. These are a few of the invasive medical procedures that have the ability to save lives, if administered appropriately. A new study co-authored by Dr. Gregory J. Dehmer, a professor of medicine at Texas A&M University, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association scrutinized stents, finding that 15 percent of 600,000 angioplasties were unwarranted or appeared to lack medical benefit though. At a price tag of $20,000 per procedure, this discrepancy comes at a huge cost to health care providers. In 2009, health care costs in the United States reached $2.5 trillion. Each year, 300,000 people in the U.S. undergo bypass surgery using another vein or artery in the body, though a new technology expected to be widely available in 2013 will be able to simulate human blood vessels. In 2007, the Methodist DeBakey Heart & Vascular Center performed 6,000 procedures in the catheterization and electrophysiology labs, including 1,500 stents and 600 coronary artery bypass cases, and more than 25,000 imaging procedures. The numbers are impressive, the technologies, overwhelming. But they also speak of a larger issue: Desensitization. The public is accustomed to these therapies as everyday normal practice, forgetting that cracking chests open, putting foreign objects and replacing organs are radical techniques. At the Houston Cardiac Association, Dr. Baxter Montgomery is going back to basics to help his patients avoid, when possible, many of these procedures while reversing chronic illnesses that plague those on the Standard American Diet. Walking into Dr. Montgomery's office is, in a way, like walking into any heart health center. Calming blue walls with matching floor decorative inserts, the required fish tank and a murmuring water fountain inscribed with "From illness to recovery, from recovery to wellness, from wellness to fitness." But touring the facilities, you also encounter a health restaurant and a workout area that are part of Montgomery's heart and wellness strategy. "My thinking on nutrition has evolved during medical practice," he explains. "I have a firm believe that the nature of the majority of chronic illnesses are related to bad, poisonous food. We can talk about lack of exercise, genetics, stress, but I would argue that 90 percent of conditions like heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, arthritis, depression, insomnia, even lupus, are a direct result of nutritional imbalances in our bodies." His journey to minimally-processed whole foods plant-based diet advocacy was gradual, triggered by first looking at his own declining health in his 30s, (he suffered from high LDL cholesterol), then seeing his mother suffer from benign brain tumors, liver failure and a series of long hospitalizations. "When an 86-year-old woman suffering from congestive heart failure â her heart pumping at 15 to 25 percent, bed-ridden and on 15 medications â improves dramatically over three weeks, you can't ignore the results minimally-processed plant-based nutrition therapies achieve," Montgomery says. "Her heart improved, pumping normally at 50 to 60 percent, she was able to walk and talk and reduced her medications down to three." For many, it's a miraculous transformation. But Montgomery believes the body's natural inclination is to heal itself when fueled properly. His medical philosophy is similar to Dr. Neal Barnard, health advocate, founder and president of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine; Dean Ornish, founder of the Preventative Medicine Research Institute; and Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., associated with the Cleveland Clinic and featured in the film Forks Over Knives. "It may seem radical to consider foods like meat â I prefer the term dead animal flesh â and it's derivatives including dairy, poison, " Montgomery says. "By definition, poison destroys life or impairs health. It may not kill you right away, but it can negatively affect brain functions, body functions, premature aging, aches and pains. That seems the norm nowadays. So it takes someone to step out and say what's right, even if it seems radical." He explains things in layman's terms. Think of a town where 40 percent of the people have strange cancers, a unique occurrence outside all other cities. You would be tempted to look at differentiating factors like water supply, diet, anything that gets inside the resident's bodies. That's practically the United States when compared to the rest of the world. Where the Standard American Diet has began to infiltrate international food cultures, chronic illnesses are on the rise. "Disease doesn't begin when a medical test is abnormal," Montgomery says. "It begins before, and it begins with behavior." Dr. Montgomery's list of consumables to avoid: All forms of animal flesh including beef, pork, poultry, fish and seafood. All processed foods including highly refined sugars, flours, chemical dyes and preservatives. Plant-based foods that have been altered; Okra may be good, but battered and deep-fried alters its nutritional content. Certain medications are good initially, though long term may be harmful. "I am not anti-medicine," Montgomery says. "I am anti-ignoring the best possible treatment or cure, whatever that may be. The best information to date is whole food plant-based nutrition. Most of what we do in medicine is treat the side-effects of the bad foods we eat. We may think these foods are benign, they are not." He has also created a taxonomy system for plant-based foods using the glycemic index and nutritional density of foods. During his 33-day Nutritional Boot Camp, participants can learn how to detox using a diet of raw fruits and vegetables, green juices and superfoods. The boot camp begins with individual tests to measure a participant's condition, five lectures, weekly food demos, a supermarket shopping trip, weekly group sessions and final tests to assess improvement. Testimonials â which, by nature, should be treated with some healthy skepticism â range from losing 30 pounds, ending dependency on medication, even saving a man from amputation due to diabetes complications. A typical eating day under Montgomery's plan may begin with a smoothie, move to a lunch consisting of a salad, dehydrated corn chips and guacamole, and finish with raw chili, coconut and nori wraps for dinner.
running_bare, what sugar level do you think is normal 1/2 hour after eating and 1 hour after. thanks. I think sugar=all carbs argument didn't get much attention and reply on this thread. Can anybody disprove these claims by running_bare: 1. all carbs, including complex carbs, increase blood sugar levels? to a different degree, but still by a lot, even brown rice, quinoa, millet, etc. 2. elevated blood sugar is bad for your health. thanks for interesting discussion everybody.
Anything eaten increases blood sugar level and insulin during digestion. Do you think it all just passes straight threw?
Yes, but to what degree? If you eat a bowl of rice, what's your sugar after? If you eat a piece of meat, what's your sugar after? Do you not think the sugar levels would be drastically different? Let's argue if this matters later, but the fact is any carbs increase your blood sugar much more then fat or protein.