Why don't Americans save?

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I’m not comparing stocks to real estate. A simple buy and hold approach in both markets have proven extremely beneficial over the past 30 years. This type of investing required no skill or hard work whatsoever. What I’m getting at is a lot of the older generation says that younger people are lazy and think they’re entitled to everything. But how much harder did they actually work? What I’m saying is buying and holding the Dow and turning 500 into 10,000 isn’t hard work or skill, it’s luck. If I told you in 30 years the Dow would be at 200,000, you’d think I’m crazy, but that’s exactly what it’s done. My parents bought our small townhouse in 1984 for 60k. At the height it was probably worth 350k. Now maybe 300k. They didn’t necessarilly do anything to warrant this, they got lucky. The baby boomer generation benefitted greatly from the huge inflation boom of the past 30 years that my generation is now paying for through higher prices. We all know that wages never keep up with inflation. It’s the way the man sticks it to you.

If you want to talk about best case scenarios, well I guess you could have bought MSFT in the 80’s and sold it 2000 and gone long gold or something like that. Real estate, - I guess it would have been nice to buy a plot of land right where a big hotel or government wanted to build something, and gotten a nice payoff.

 

Because we're in the new era which began under Reagan in 1982. That was the start of the transition from a type 0 to type one civilization.

 

I researched on the internet to see what you are talking about stocktrad3r. Interesting.




Type 0.1: Fluid groups of hominids living in Africa. Technology consists of primitive stone tools. Intra-group conflicts are resolved through dominance hierarchy, and between-group violence is common.

Type 0.2: Bands of roaming hunter-gatherers that form kinship groups, with a mostly horizontal political system and egalitarian economy.

Type 0.3: Tribes of individuals linked through kinship but with a more settled and agrarian lifestyle. The beginnings of a political hierarchy and a primitive economic division of labor.

Type 0.4: Chiefdoms consisting of a coalition of tribes into a single hierarchical political unit with a dominant leader at the top, and with the beginnings of significant economic inequalities and a division of labor in which lower-class members produce food and other products consumed by non-producing upper-class members.

Type 0.5: The state as a political coalition with jurisdiction over a well-defined geographical territory and its corresponding inhabitants, with a mercantile economy that seeks a favorable balance of trade in a win-lose game against other states.

Type 0.6: Empires extend their control over peoples who are not culturally, ethnically or geographically within their normal jurisdiction, with a goal of economic dominance over rival empires.

Type 0.7: Democracies that divide power over several institutions, which are run by elected officials voted for by some citizens. The beginnings of a market economy.

Type 0.8: Liberal democracies that give the vote to all citizens. Markets that begin to embrace a nonzero, win-win economic game through free trade with other states.

Type 0.9: Democratic capitalism, the blending of liberal democracy and free markets, now spreading across the globe through democratic movements in developing nations and broad trading blocs such as the European Union.

Type 1.0: Globalism that includes worldwide wireless Internet access, with all knowledge digitized and available to everyone. A completely global economy with free markets in which anyone can trade with anyone else without interference from states or governments. A planet where all states are democracies in which everyone has the franchise.

The forces at work that could prevent us from making the great leap forward to a Type 1 civilization are primarily political and economic. The resistance by nondemocratic states to turning power over to the people is considerable, especially in theocracies whose leaders would prefer we all revert to Type 0.4 chiefdoms. The opposition toward a global economy is substantial, even in the industrialized West, where economic tribalism still dominates the thinking of most politicians, intellectuals and citizens.

For thousands of years, we have existed in a zero-sum tribal world in which a gain for one tribe, state or nation meant a loss for another tribe, state or nation -- and our political and economic systems have been designed for use in that win-lose world. But we have the opportunity to live in a win-win world and become a Type 1 civilization by spreading liberal democracy and free trade, in which the scientific and technological benefits will flourish. I am optimistic because in the evolutionist's deep time and the historian's long view, the trend lines toward achieving Type 1 status tick inexorably upward.

That is change we can believe in.



Michael Shermer is an adjunct professor in the School of Politics and Economics at Claremont Graduate University, the publisher of Skeptic magazine and a monthly columnist for Scientific American. His latest book is "The Mind of the Market."

 

You seem mad at the world. Well the baby boomers benefitted for years from inflation, so I have no problem with their portfolio’s being cut in half. Buying the Dow 30 years ago at 500 and buying a house for 30k that is now worth 500k, doesn’t make you an investing genius or hard working.

Sandy, I am pissed at how this country is evolving, yes. Most boomers have very little saved up, let alone $500K even in their house. They basically pissed away the opportunity of a millenium.


75k jobs are a bit of an extreme. I get $4.50 an hour plus tips when I get them and no benefits. I’m barely getting by on that, so even twice that would make a huge difference. I think there is just too many people and not enough jobs. The market has gotten very tight. Productivity unfortunately reduces jobs as computers are now doing what humans used to. That’s just the way it goes, but newer technology should also create more jobs. There is always the same amount of money out there, it’s just continuosly switching hands between the few and the masses and vice versa.

My father worked as a supervisor at a tire factory. Workers could make six figs if they put in overtime, with full medical, and could retire at 55. They really were not worth that much as we are seeing now. Productivity tools simply displace jobs, nowadays no one complains that all the farm jobs are gone due to farm equipment. The problem is not that there are not enough jobs, it's that americans won't do them. How else do you explain tens of millions of illegal immigrants?

There isn't always the same amount of money and wealth out there, it is constantly created. The problem now is that money is being created faster than wealth.

$4.50 an hour? My son got $8 an hour just out of high school at Wal Mart. I find it hard to believe that a person can't do better than that.

I do live in a high cost housing area, but I’ve been here my whole life and this is home for now. I just can’t get up and move half way across the country.

I have no sympathy for that attitude, I have picked up and moved hundreds of miles, several times when necessary.


I think your points on health care are valid, but a little sympathy is ok. Of course longer life spans will cost more. However you’re using the typical political useless talk about responsibility. I was born with glaucoma. Over the past 3 years I had 2 very minor surgery’s by 2 different doctors. They knocked me out for about 2 hours. All of this cost about $2,600 each. My health insurance covered both. I’m not seeing how personal responsibility could have prevented that. $2600 for 3 hours is pretty pricey and that was minor surgery.

I've paid much more than you for health care for myself and family, it's no different than food and shelter. Responsibility is accepting that you alone own you and should not expect to live off the wealth created by others. It's not political, and it doesn't matter since I am very much in the minority. We are heading into socialism very quickly.

 

hopelessly idealistic and wrongheaded- typical

 

Yes, someone will always be the king of the jungle in different times.

 

Europeans save? Really? You are stuck back in 1980. Why do you think Germany now has a TV show called "Raus aus den Schulden"? (transl. Get out of debt)

http://rtl-now.rtl.de/rads.php

 

So I guess it’s not just my generation that had an entitlement mentality and spent way too much. Regardless, I don’t know that many baby boomers who don’ at least have a bunch of equity.

Then what jobs are worth decent pay? All the factory jobs are gone, a thing of the past. Wages have been reduced so dramatically that if you don’t take risks and start a business or have some super specialized skill, you won’t be making a decent living. Also the cost of living has gone up so dramatically that it’s a struggle just to stay ahead.

There are millions of illegal immigrants because apparantly their countries economies are worse than ours. They are in search of a better life like everybody else. If their governments weren’t so corrupt, then maybe their economies would be better. But that’s not our problem. You’re drinking the Bush Kool Aid.That’s just crap he came up with to help out his buddies get cheap labor. There is no such thing as jobs Americans won’t do, just jobs that don’t pay Americans what their worth. I mop the floors. But I’m not going to work for below minimum wage under the table. Insourcing is just as much a problem as outsourcing. Nothing is ever said about how much the careless immigration policies we have are actually costing us. Sure employers are saving on cheap labor, but think of how much that ends up costing society. They don’t have health insurance so they just go to the hospital and we end up paying for it. They have 500 kids and put them all in public schools, which we pay for. Overcrowding leads to even more schools needing to be built. They usually all receive public assistance in some way, which we pay for. They obviously are not paying much taxes because they aren’t making much money in the first place. So maybe all that cheap labor ended up costing more in the end than just paying an American enough to have a decent life. Give me one example of an American who refuses to do low end jobs that will provide a decent living. I’ll do it. What do you think your son is doing working at Wal-Mart? Isn’t that a job that American’s won’t do? Apparantly not. The question is will he do it after taking a pay cut so the government can bring in new immigrants who will do it for less. Think about it. I have many friends that are first generation to come here. Most are hard working, but I think the time has come for us to really reexamine our immigration policies. Also immigrants very rarely ever go into the military. Why? Well I’ll leave that up to you. I didn’t go in because that life is just not for me, but you can bet that if my country ever asked or needed me to serve, I would. Can you say the same about most immigrants that come here? Also I believe there are many other ways to serve your country than just the military.

I get $4.50 plus tips. 5 years ago when I started I got $5.25 plus better mileage reimbursement. The tips were better back then. These franchise owners do not care about you. They are paying people less than before, not more. My friend from an old store I used to work at told me he just quit after 5 years because they asked him to take a $1 pay cut. What gives? It is not worth it anymore and I will be looking for a new job starting next week. One day I hope to go into business against these greedy owners. I want to give people good jobs and incentive to work hard and build something. I will put those other people out of business and take all of their good employees and build a better world.

Yes, new money is always being created, but it certainly ain’t the little guy getting it. That’s how they rich screw the little guy. They don’t take more money from the poor, they just create more of it and keep it and thereby devalue what little the poor and middle class have. I contend it’s the largest and most secretive theft in human history.

Well it’s not necessary now. I have no money to get started and no prospects. My life is here now. If something ever came up, then I would consder it. But just because the grass might be greener on the other side, doesn’t mean that it is.

I didn’t say anything about living off of others, I am asking why everything is so expensive. Continually rising prices doesn’t encourage others to want to work harder for the same thing, it encourages them to vote in the politician that will give them what they thought they were working hard to achieve in the first place.

I have said this before. Rich people will be responsible for bringing about Socialism, not the poor. The poor will vote it in, but the rich have caused the sentiment through their greed. Do you think Chase taking my interest rate from 8-24% for no reason encourages me to want a free society? No, I’m going to vote for the guy who will bring about changes that reduce the ability for some of the rich to take advantage of the poor.You see how greed leads to regulation? Nobody is saying Chase can’t make 8% off of me, but 24% is legal thievery.

 

Socialist Europe,

It's because you have no hope of financial freedom or to be free of the government. The suppression from this independence actually works the opposite way you would imagine.

Wifey

 

Thats US culture spreading like a virus.:eek:

First the money masters tell the Americans what to do, then the Brits follow and then it's hard for the rest of the world not to follow but people do try.