Why does TA not work (for you)?

Discussion in 'Technical Analysis' started by Xspurt, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. Fah Q

    Fah Q

    i agree with fah :)
    :)
     
    #801     Aug 10, 2012
  2. In Western logic, it is not enough to simply say "I disagree" as if that were some kind of rebuttal. Not that you owe me an explanation for why you disagree, obviously.

    I'll look into binary options. From what I've read, those are open to close-based, no? My trades don't necessarily start at the open and end at the close.
     
    #802     Aug 10, 2012
  3. Good boy.:) Never disagree with him.
     
    #803     Aug 10, 2012
  4. Yes, the math of factorials makes it impossible to test everything.
     
    #804     Aug 10, 2012
  5. Obviously. Anyone who says they've tested it all is deluding themselves. Too many combos of inputs.

     
    #805     Aug 10, 2012

  6. Try www.nadex.com it's a real regulated exchange their binaries are not closed and can be traded in and out of during the time frame. surf
     
    #806     Aug 10, 2012
  7. NoDoji

    NoDoji

    Hi Steve!

    It seems you're comparing two different things here: the random distribution of a 50/50 odds situation (coin toss) and a positive expectancy system (odds greater than 50%).

    I would think that if your overall profitability is based on the average win rate of trading all valid setups in a particular time frame being greater than 50%, picking and choosing which trades to take from among valid setups can ruin the edge pretty easily. What if out of 20 setups in a given day, I choose six losing trades and two winning trades, instead of trading all 20 setups? What if I do this day after day? I've spoken with a few struggling traders who look to trade well-defined setups, but they don't trade all of them and they seem to consistently lose money.

    TRO posted this neat little study that illustrates the problem with picking and choosing in the framework of a positive expectancy system with totally random distribution:

    "Look, for example, at this elegant little experiment. A rat was put in a T-shaped maze with a few morsels of food placed on either the far right or left side of the enclosure. The placement of the food is randomly determined, but the dice is rigged: over the long run, the food was placed on the left side sixty per cent of the time. How did the rat respond? It quickly realized that the left side was more rewarding. As a result, it always went to the left, which resulted in a sixty percent success rate. The rat didn't strive for perfection. It didn't search for a Unified Theory of the T-shaped maze, or try to decipher the disorder. Instead, it accepted the inherent uncertainty of the reward and learned to settle for the best possible alternative.

    The experiment was then repeated with Yale undergraduates. Unlike the rat, their swollen brains stubbornly searched for the elusive pattern that determined the placement of the reward. They made predictions and then tried to learn from their prediction errors. The problem was that there was nothing to predict: the randomness was real. Because the students refused to settle for a 60 percent success rate, they ended up with a 52 percent success rate. Although most of the students were convinced they were making progress towards identifying the underlying algorithm, they were actually being outsmarted by a rat."

    P.S. If the trading system is based on a win rate close to 50% and money management is the edge, then picking and choosing probably wouldn't matter.
     
    #807     Aug 10, 2012
  8. I think there is a difference between that study and Steve's point, which is that in the study, the students didn't randomly choose to not participate in some trials and they didn't apply a random selection process like a coin flip to determine which way they went when they did choose.

    Let's say you have 100 trade signals over the next 100 days, but you flip a coin to only end up taking 50 of them. Those 50 should, within some margin of error, have the same win percentage as the 100 would have. That's with all things being equal, but as the number of trades approached the thousands, I agree with Steve that the expectancy should remain consistent even if you only take 50% of those thousands of trades. There are a couple of things, at least, which could change the expectancy over the short run, but over the long run, I don't think it would change.
     
    #808     Aug 10, 2012
  9. A quote from an old movie seem appropriate today and that is "get thee behind me Satan"

    I reduced the size of my que today in order to improve my computer's performance.

    I still had 26 signals and 25 were wins using the same two indicators. Here is the score so far since the thread was started.

    DATE MKOP T= W/L WIN%
    8-2 UP 1.5 27/3 90%
    8-3 UP 1.5 18/1 95%
    8-6 DWN 1.0 18/1 95%
    8-7 UP 1.5 35/8 81%
    8-8 DWN 1.5 47/1 98%
    8-9 DWN 1.0 24/2 92%
    8-10 DWN 1.0 25/1 96%

    How do these numbers compare to Surf"s chimpanzee picks
     
    #809     Aug 10, 2012
  10. 54 years for me.The technological advances have made information more easily handled.

    I liked the copier and the PC when they showed up.
     
    #810     Aug 10, 2012