Why do you trade?

Chris, are you fishing for answers for a job you are applying too? that is what it feels like.

I would say my strongest skill are my market read, my strong programming ability, and my ability to make sense of large amounts of conflicting information. My goal would be to serve at my highest ability which for me would mean the ability to trade using a wide latitude of freedom and executing using my superior market read. Ideally, I would be given a research assistant or research assistant on call who could run studies for me. I would have ability to hold overnight and use extensive capital. My goal would be to serve at my fullest with no limit on the upside stated. Point blank: I'm one of the best in the world at what I do.

Please don't try to use my answers to get a job. Nobody will hire you or take you seriously. If you really want the job.. write something like this instead:

I'm very detail oriented and value hard work. I don't know a lot about the market. But, I'm eager to learn. I played sports in school and love to win. I'm very strong in math and enjoy working on puzzles in my spare time. I love challenges and pushing myself to the limit. I'd love to learn from the best.

--> You write that instead and you might get the job. The detail oriented is important if you are doing some low level grunt work which you likely will be. Most of the spazzes out there aren't looking to hire the best like me. They can't afford the best. They just need "good enough" and someone who will work with what they have. The rest is filler.

 

Trading is the byproduct of a number of factors for me. I went to university for psychology hoping that with a clear understanding of human behaviour and some research experience, I'd be able to bridge myself into a marketing job. I backed up my degree with some statistics and business courses to make myself more appealing. After four years, I realized that a bachelor's would not be enough - so I applied to grad school. Every school rejected me because I wasn't looking to study a particular subject within a specific stream of psychology. I was looking for the big picture of human behaviour, whereas they really wanted to pigeonhole me into a specific area.

"Fine," I said, "I'll start applying for jobs." I managed to get a few interviews at a couple marketing companies, but all of them said they were only interested in business graduates. Never mind that I had always placed first in my business courses and my consulting reports were published. Never mind the fact that I can dissect quantitative easing better than their senior analysts. I didn't have the right piece of toilet paper for the job.

I got discouraged and started looking for menial work - stuff like administrative assistant, paper bitch, etc. All of these job postings seemed to want someone with analytical skills. Analytical skills for what? Keeping track of how many pens there are in the supply room? Nevertheless, I interviewed with them and told them of my research background. When it came time to make their decision, however, all these places rejected me on the basis that I didn't have enough working experienced.

As I was getting sh*t on left and right by employers, my friends were still continuing on with their education, because they, like me, were at their wits end with what to do with their degrees. We'd meet up and all they seemed to want to do was engage in pseudo-intellectual banter over overpriced lattes. They went full out academic on me, talking about their latest study examining the rates of prostitute consumption in an increasingly capitalist China, blah, blah, blah. The thing is, all of them were just growing more closed minded by the day and developing their "objective" theses around their subjective political beliefs. Not only that, if I disagreed with them, they'd try to force it down my throat. I realized they have to stick to their guns for the sake of their government grants and their seemingly insatiable appetite for student debt, but there's no need to be opinion Nazis.

I eventually decided that I was tired of people parading around unsubstantiated facts and judgments, whether it be my friends or potential employers. There's really no reason for a company to think I'm less of an analytical thinker because I don't have a business degree. Likewise, there's really no reason for my friends to think their studies on Chinese prostitutes are contributing anything to the world other than putting our government in more debt. I wanted to do something where I know exactly when I'm right and when I'm wrong. That way, when I'm wrong, I can nip the problem at the bud and change my outlook. Other than trading, there's nothing else that does this. Oh really? Your professor in hippie studies told you that gas prices are rising solely on the basis of greedy oil barons? WRONG! And I got the charts to prove it - not some conclusion drawn from coffeehouse philosophy.

So basically, I trade because I strive for the highest form of objectivity - one that's free of bias, prejudice, and indoctrination. That, and my dad has been doing it for years, so I knew the basics from an early age.

 

Would you write that on paper to submit? Or just something you would verbally say?

 

Honestly, Yes and No. No, I'm not fishing for answers but more trying to get an understanding of the mind set one has to have to think they have the ability to succeed in this industry. Since it has such a high failure rate. I'm trying to get a feel for all of that ....

Thank you

 

Try to think of the drive of someone who believes they can go pro in the NFL or NBA (equally high failure rate). The only difference here is that your destiny is in your own hands instead of the hands of a draft pick or a scout. The kind of person who trades for a living, and not just for retirement or speculation, or to have a little extra now and again, is the kind of person who demonstrates signs of obsession. It could be obsession with problem solving, with having a mobile income, with becoming wealthy, etc. For me it was all of the above.
I went through a phase where I was a hardcore problem solver. No puzzle had beat me. I'd spend nights and weekends going over things in my head until I could solve them. I was looking for more than just completion of a puzzle, I was looking for understanding. Like, after I beat this puzzle, how can I come to understand the nature of this kind of puzzle in order to beat ones like it more quickly in the future? Or even create one of my own in the future that others will not be able to solve?

Fortunately, or unfortunately, this phase of my life is where I got introduced to the market. I probably spent 10 to 14 hours per day 7 days per week (super unhealthy, I know) working on and thinking about the market. Not just trying to gain a statistical advantage in a system that would work and allow me to make money, but trying to understand the root cause of each movement and each reversal, trend or counter trend. It was the longest and toughest puzzle I had ever tried to tackle. And two and a half years later I was simultaneously satisfied with my findings and cured of my OCD.

I came to my senses with the realization that I had gained the opportunity to make the world my oyster. Now, I trade for freedom. I trade to travel. To watch my kids grow up and be part of their lives. To take them to see other cultures. To invent things and make things available that don't currently exist, and whatever else enters my heart along the way. I'm a 29 year old options trader, I'm up 900% for the year, my largest drawback to date is 2.6%, and I live with a sense that I've won. There's nothing better.

 

This story really is the way it is...sad but true. I have many acquaintances with a similar experience. I think it really all boils down to, "its who you know , not what you know" .

As I have said before, for thousands of years apprenticeship has been the best form of education. Whether it be your father, family friend, or uncle to show one how to make a living. That has way more value than the toilet paper degrees they charge thousands for.

 

Equally important, how much are you willing to pay for the Caramilk secret:

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Depends on the training. But I'd love that idea

 

I relate to much of the whole story in the complete post of FuturisticEel, told amusingly with heavy irony.

In quick succession I had a number jobs over a relatively short period after my degree. I just left my degree in economics off my resume because I'd run into the objection by employers that I was over qualified for jobs for which I applied. At the same time I had been late in doing my rites of passage but was getting in experience with various girlfriends and having the time of my life.

I wanted to get into markets. I had been a hospital doorman for a few months when I got the chance to start as a traders clerk for a floor trading firm at a very low salary. I took it gladly.

Cutting this story short, the business was doing badly. These were ideal circumstances for me and as a result I progressed from floor trader to CEO and turned the business into a big winner. The company was owned by an investment bank which helps when you've got an important name behind you. Of course you meet a lot of top echelon players and fellow top executives which in itself is an education. Fat salary/bonuses and privileges are very gratifying but still bottom line I hankered for freedom. So I went independent.

The thing is that, win or lose, there are those of us who want freedom to do our own thing entirely. Riches of course enhance my freedom but I put freedom first. Its the game that I want to play. Markets are a puzzle and I enjoy problem solving. I write occasional posts at ET for newcomers because it is possible to succeed, outside the great corporate/employment matrix that captures and entangles everyone else.

You can make it and you can also make yourself rich

 

I'm in the Chicago area. I'd love to be able to sit with someone a few days a week and learn. Be a sort of assistant for research, etc. I would like the more hands on training approach. That would be great and much appreciated. Seems like striving on my own would only make it that much more difficult. Not that I can't handle but having a mentor is better than not.

Sign me up. I'm a great researcher, independent thinker, and very hard working. I know a lot say this, but I TRULY willing to work extremely hard and very hungry for a chance.