Why do they hate us?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KymarFye, Apr 13, 2003.

  1. roe

    roe

    KF, glad to note that you acknowledge the fact that you are far from being original and a genius, and that you recognise the fact that a genius is by definition original.

    A German friend of mine asked me to put this quote in here, as he thinks it properly characterizes you:

    "Dumm geboren, nichts dazugelernt, und das bisschen auch noch vergessen"

    It is very funny and I think it says all that there is to be said about types like you, but perhaps there is soemone who can give us a nifty translation?

    Hey MSFE, wanna try your translation skills?
     
    #111     Apr 24, 2003
  2. msfe

    msfe


    no need to - Freddie N. is a multilingual genius, like most American freedom fighters
     
    #112     Apr 24, 2003


  3. an interesting essay - a more direct statement of the neoconservative theory, based on a fundamental racist belief in middle-eastern inferiority, coupled with egotism, materialism, and nationalism.

    pointing out and discussing the unproven assertions and ridiculous assumptions would be futile here.

    but one question: if, as declared, there are a billion same-thinking savages, boiling with dumb rage and hatred over their pitiful failure and insignificance before the superior US, dreaming of nothing but destruction and death, why have only 20 of them actually attacked?

    surely even savages know that it takes more than 20 people to "tear down a mountain." where is the evidence to support such a broad assignment of intent?
     
    #113     Apr 24, 2003
  4. I don't think it is racist to point out the obvious. It would be racist to say they can't compete because of their race. The author did the exact opposite and pointed out objective reasons for their failures and laid out a methods by which they could succeed.

    That said, I don't think the article really answers the question of why other countries hate us or resent us. The French and Germans for example, hardly suffer under these constraints. The problem with the Arab world is that they hate themselves, because they know they are losers. Fundamentalism offers them an escape by saying in effect, it doesn't matter.
     
    #114     Apr 24, 2003
  5. it seems definitely "racist,"* maybe not truly racist, though statements like this seem to come close:

    substitute "Africa" or "Latin America" or "Indian" for the middle east in that essay, and ask if that would be "racist," even including the "practical objective" qualifier... identical comments directed to other groups of people would be immediately denounced, obviousness or truth notwithstanding.

    * "racist" refers to the US media/PC usage of the term, and not necessarily actual difference in treatment due solely to race.
     
    #115     Apr 24, 2003
  6. roe

    roe

    I think the way the term "race" is used in the media and in the general public is misleading and thoughtless.

    Misleading, because there is only one human race: just because your hair is blond or frizzled does not mean you belong to a different race.

    Thoughtless because by using the word you allow yourself to be dragged down to the likes of Hitler etc, who was ever so keen to blurt and rant about a "superior" race, which implied that there was/is an inferior race. "The white race, the master race" is what some dumbasses in the US rattle on aboutstill to this day. You want to be like them, join the US Nazi party.
     
    #116     Apr 24, 2003
  7. Excellent, excellent essay. You know it's special when it gets the libs all excited and they start throwing out tired cliches like racism. :)
     
    #117     Apr 24, 2003
  8. you are kidding, right?
     
    #118     Apr 24, 2003
  9. roe

    roe

    no, he means it!
     
    #119     Apr 24, 2003
  10. There is nothing remotely racist about Den Beste's analysis, in my opinion. I'm not sure whether you read the entire essay, but, even in the excerpt, Den Beste goes out of his way, as AAA notes, to ground the discussion on objective factors that, in his view, have prevented the countries of the Arab world from keeping up with the rest of the world economically, scientifically, militarily, and politically - yes, mainly in "Western," material terms, but that's Den Beste's point. Much of what he observes has been noted by Arab intellectuals and researchers. Den Beste also directly addresses accusations of racism in the notes that appear near the end of the essay.

    I've seen commentaries from the left - such as an essay from the GUARDIAN (where else?) recently posted by msfe - that come much closer to outright bigotry, depicting the Arabs almost as making up some pyschotic Islamist hive mind eternally incapable of coexistence with and practical understanding of Western values and institutions.

    "A billion same-thinking savages" and "dumb rage and hatred" are, of course, your phrases. Your question otherwise suggests that you believe 9/11 was the only incident of anti-Western extremist violence to emerge from the Arab world, and that it was the work solely of the (almost) 20 individuals who actually did the "job." There are thousands of airline passengers, European tourists, Kenyan and Tanzanian embassy employees, US and British diplomats, Israeli citizens, US Marines and Sailors, and non- or anti-extremist Arabs, among many, many others, who would strongly disagree with you - if only they were still among the living.

    No one is arguing that all 1 billion Muslims aim to destroy the West beginning with the US. As for the intention to make war on and convert the West, the evidence includes, but is certainly not limited to, several "fatwas" issued by Bin Laden and associates declaring war on the US, Israel - governments and citizenry - and all who support or associate with them.

    The evidence extends to the ever-ready flag-burning placard-wielding mobs that produce such impressive pictures for the evening news, to regular incitement by Islamist clerics, and to statements that regularly are featured on editorial pages and satellite TV shows throughout the region. Not all or even very many of these demonstrations and statements call explicitly for the destruction of the West - or for the mass conversion of non-Muslims - but even those that merely concentrate on outlandish accusations and uncompromising rejection of all Western influences and values help create an environment that nurtures suicide bombers and other terrorists. And do I need to point out that in today's world it doesn't necessarily take a huge army to inflict catastrophic damage on an enemy people?

    Charles Johnson has made a point of collecting extreme anti-Western material of this type for some time now - though the term "extreme" may be innacurate if interpreted as also meaning "rare" or "isolated." If you care to review it, and are capable of getting past your ideological prejudices, you can always take a look at his weblog at http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php. I must say, though, that, if you haven't yet noticed sufficient evidence of intense anti-Western hatred and rage emanating from the Middle East, you have either not paid much attention to world events of the last forty or so years, or you're so politically correct that it has affected your eyesight and sense of hearing.
     
    #120     Apr 26, 2003