Why do more than 90% of traders lose?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by emg, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. nitro

    nitro

    I think the spirit of the thread is, at the end of the year, if they make it that long, do they have more money than they started with, or less. Including datafeeds, books, software fees, seminars, internet connection, computer expenses, commissions, etc.

    And, is this enough to make a living on without external support. For the sake of argument, let's call a "living" >$25k after expenses.
     
    #171     Mar 29, 2016
  2. K-Pia

    K-Pia

    I can't tell you Why.
    But I can tell you How.
    And it's all that matters ...
     
    #172     Mar 29, 2016
  3. K-Pia

    K-Pia

    What if he makes 22,5K after expenses ?
    Consistently ? Or 25K in average ?

    Arbitrary value for useless variable is ... BS.

    You can be a successful trader but not able to live from your art.
    However if successful you are. One day will come when you'll be able to.
    The only spreadsheet that matters is the P&L. Not the bills or whatever else.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    #173     Mar 29, 2016
  4. nitro

    nitro

    If you made it on average, it would not be a living since some months you won't be able to pay your bills, and by the definition I gave, he would need external support. And if he got not even that unlucky, he might not even make any money say the first three months and blow out because most retail traders are horribly undercapitilized.

    The reason I said $25k after expenses is because it is a reasonable number that I have seen many many retail traders make in the past that had humble trading accounts of say $100k. At IB that gives you portfolio margin and you might be able to make chicken stew. And if you live frugal, you can support yourself just about anywhere in the world.

    The point is not only are they not making anywhere near $25k a year, most of them go negative year after year after expenses. So $25k or $25,000,000 is a mute point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    #174     Mar 29, 2016
  5. K-Pia

    K-Pia

    You're Right.
    But I am in favor to drop your second condtition.
    Because a successful trader isn't necessarily earning more than 25K.
    Success in trading is sized by the growth of wealth over time.
    If someone turns 100$ into 1000$ in a year, he's good.
    Or Probably Good if not lucky. But earned < 25K.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    #175     Mar 29, 2016
  6. nitro

    nitro

    Turning $100 into $1000 is a tremendous result if done consistently.

    Although, I would like to see (obviously):

    • The account size that it is done on (is it really $100?)
    • The MAE and MFE
    • How often does he blow out the $100, then subtract from future gains.
    This person is a hobbyist anyway.
     
    #176     Mar 29, 2016
  7. K-Pia

    K-Pia

    MAE ? MFE ?
    So no one will ever be able to fool you.
     
    #177     Mar 29, 2016
  8. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    more than that
     
    #178     Mar 29, 2016
  9. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Traders lose due to reckless risk management. That is all.
     
    #179     Mar 29, 2016
    Chubbly likes this.
  10. K-Pia

    K-Pia

    It's not only about Risk Management.
    Play Russian Roulette with a good Risk Management.
    Or even with a good Risk Management, you could still loose money.
     
    #180     Mar 29, 2016
    profitlocker and kut2k2 like this.