why do funds perform so poorly?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by malaka56, Oct 19, 2005.

  1. enough already.
     
    #41     Oct 21, 2005
  2. I'm not defending individual investors here. I make a good living off dumb investors and their dumb money. However, if you think (as malaka and blunt seem to) that institutional investors earning a mere 12% are the dumb money then you don't understand the markets.

    "Here's some numbers I pulled out of my ass. Hey, does anyone have numbers they didn't pull out of their ass?"

    I can't believe I'm teaching you guys arithmetic. If (as you claim) you'd be hard pressed to make 25% with $50 billion, then any 50 money managers with $1 billion each are also going to be hard pressed to earn 25% returns. Some of them are going to make 30-40% but some of them are going to make 10-20%. Broadly speaking, the average dollar in large funds does no better than the average dollar in small funds.

    Martin
     
    #42     Oct 21, 2005
  3. I was talking about liquidity and access to the good trades. Theres only so many opportunity trades.

    Apparently your talking about something else.
     
    #43     Oct 21, 2005
  4. My point has absolutely nothing to do with efficient markets or any other academic constructions beyond basic arithmetic. It holds even in wildly inefficient market. Go back, read it again, maybe you'll understand.

    *shrug* If that's all you're saying, who can argue with that?

    Martin
     
    #44     Oct 21, 2005
  5. Condescend all you want after you've pointed out the flaw in my argument. :)

    Martin
     
    #45     Oct 21, 2005
  6. That's precisely what I'm talking about.

    Martin
     
    #46     Oct 21, 2005
  7. classic. :D
     
    #47     Oct 21, 2005
  8. 1. Thank you for not flaming, particularly since you do not agree with me. That is a mark of gentility, which is one of the commodities in shortest supply around here.

    2. Yes, my division of capital does satisfy my primary goals at this time in my life, number one, two, and three ofwhich is : Not losing all my capital.

    Brief aside - I am not a professional. I come from a "wall st." family. My dad had a seat. Big deal. Dad did not follow rule #2 & died quite broke.

    3. I used to chart on paper too. And we had one of the original computrek programs running on an 8088. How's that?

    4. B- in my Ivy league school, thank you very much. It disturbs me how quickly you identified that.

    5. I can't tell if your discussion is a sales pitch or an honest entreaty to get me to change my mind about my approach to asset allocation. If it is a sales pitch - sorry, not interested. All the best information I have ever received has been either free, nearly free, or most importantly self-discovered.

    6. Assuming you are genuine, your high velocity technique sounds interesting, but your further discussion devolves into jargony gobbledygook. More meat please! And yes, I agree with the "shift your paradigm" ideas out there but 'keeping it real' is necessary also.

    7. Your list is a useful beginning for self- exploration. However, many successful traders have potentially done this exercise innately and may have arrived at the same place by skipping over some of those areas of discussion. Why? Because they just know it. Why do you need to question what you know innately to be true (if you are true to yourself?)

    8. Traditional pathways yield traditional, average, and mediocre results. But consider the purposes behind those pathways and the people who choose them. We have definite life goals. Once those goals are assured, even greater risk can be taken because the fear of being unable to achieve those goals has been removed. You have, in effect, 'set yourself free'. This, I argue, is what real wealth is.

    9. Bulls and bears make money, but pigs get slaughtered. See #2. You wouldn't believe how useful annuities, a lack of personal debt, and cash in the bank are for your trading. But everyone laughs at the values of thrift, living within ones means, liquidity, and lack of indebtedness in our 'modern' society. Why? It's just not sexy enough.

    10. My final point. I will pass along my acquired wisdom, which will probably be ignored.

    The market is what the market is. The market does not care if you make money. The market does not care if you lose money. The market does not care if you need new car, or if your baby needs a new pair of shoes. The market does not care about you. The market simply is what the market is. If you are long and prices go up, you make money. If you are short and prices go down, you make money. If the reverse happens, you lose money. And at the end of the day, that's all there is. Try not to lose money.
     
    #48     Oct 21, 2005
  9. your on.
     
    #49     Oct 21, 2005
  10. Thank you so much, again, for your response and initiatives.

    Prudence, of course, prevails.

    I think it would really be worthwhile to exchange views on what you have neatly scoped and bounded here.

    We are both on the same page and I sincerely feel that you are wanting to understanding that I am just in discussion with you on potential mutual interests. If you read "sales" it is probably just more an advocacy orientation instead.

    Serendipity allowed me to set myself free early on (see 8 above). I was able to use stock collateral at Farifield C. Bank and Trust to purchase my first family sailing cruiser (King's Cruiser US 122) with a 2 year loan. Meaning I traded the stock in street name to double down in two years meaning their security standards for collateral. They sent me a check for the price of the boat at the end of two years and I had, in effect, a free boat.
    My son was born half way through the loan which was another "freedom" when we weren't expected to have children; meaning we went first class financially at the Greenwich Hospital.
     
    #50     Oct 21, 2005