Why do Europeans give up sovereignty?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Lucias, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. The ECU was initially the monetary equivalent of a free lunch. Germany benefitted enormously because it could circumvent currency and other barriers to export to member countries. The southern countries benefitted because they could borrow with a strong currency, ie at low rates.

    Now the bill has come due, first for the debtors, who are learning that there are some big negatives to not having your own national currency. Of course, as the biggest winner, Germany has the most to lose and therefore is under enormous presure to subsidize their poor cousins. All the summits, etc are just the Germans trying to extract the best possible terms for the inevitable transfer of wealth from German taxpayers, which will be roughly as popular as raising taxes here to subsidize profligate welfare cheats.

    The Brits are a bit of a special case, not least because they are not part of the ECU. The whole euro experiment has considerably less appeal in Britain as it does on the Continent. They see no reason why they should be expected to pony up to subsidize a currency system they are not part of. They see a not-so-subtle French-German conspiracy to undermine the one area in which they are more than competitve, financial services, no doubt as part of a larger plan to bring them to heel.

    The answer to the OP's question is fairly simple. The debtor countries see a handout, even on onerous terms, as preferable to facing up to their problems. They probably know instinctively that welfare, once granted, is hard to take away. As europeans, they are used to being treated as livestock and cared for from cradle to grave, so losing some additional independence is not that big a deal to them.

    Before we start feeling too superior, if some foreign government offered our citizens a 50% increase in all forms of government assistance in exchange for loss of sovereignty, do you really think they wouldn't get close to a majority?
     
    #21     Dec 9, 2011
  2. Because the Germans have corrupted political parties in some countries that must leave the euro with bribes through Siemens and they are afraid to go against them. So they scare their citizens that if they leave the euro chaos will strike.

    The only beneficiary of euro is Germany and their biggest ally of WWII, France, which did not even fire a single shot when the Germans invaded it.

    Brave English will be the only nation that will fight against German imperialism once more. The first time they were helped by only one nation in the whole of Europe. Guess that was Greece.

    "If there had not been the virtue and courage of the Greeks, we do not know which the outcome of World War II would had been." Sir Winston Churchill, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

    "Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks." Sir Winston Churchill, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom


    Now Greek heroes are dead.

    History does repeat itself but with causalties.
     
    #22     Dec 9, 2011
  3. Visaria

    Visaria

    #23     Dec 9, 2011
  4. dtan1e

    dtan1e

    wonder if the Germans be out for revenge for the previous wars
     
    #24     Dec 9, 2011
  5. Maybe I don't get it.

    Seems the Germans are being asked to fund/backstop everybody else (including the PIIGS "no work, all play lifestyle that the Germans will have to pay for because the PIIGS can no longer borrow").. and they don't want to do that... can you blame them?

    Or maybe it's a version of The Golden Rule"... Germany has the gold, so perhaps they should be making the rules.. ??
     
    #25     Dec 9, 2011
  6. Well, it seems sort of like the big banks created a lot of paper that they paid the ratings agencies to mis-rate. That pretty much amounts to counterfeiting, because they were then saying that the paper they created has a 1:1 equivalence with a dollar in the "real" economy (the backdoor bailout of GS through AIG was 100 cents/dollar).

    Then the shit hits the fan and "Oh shit - it's actually worth shit. But now all your money in the "real" economy has to cover for our counterfeit. So that means austerity for all of you!"

    People complain about the Wall St casino, but that doesn't seem to be the only problem....
     
    #26     Dec 9, 2011
  7. The politicos, Fed, Administration... all are equally culpable with WS.
     
    #27     Dec 9, 2011
  8. Germany's relationship with the Eurozone is symbiotic. Without the Euro, German currency would be very strong and those of weaker economies relatively weaker, reflecting the strength of the German economy. Funding the other EU countries is a bit self-serving.

    Rather like China exporting to the US and EU, then using surpluses to buy US and EU debt.

    Effectively, you buy my stuff and I'll lend you money. Don't ask me where this all ends, it just does not seem terribly logical to me.

    Edited.
     
    #28     Dec 9, 2011
  9. Why do States give up sovereignty to the feds?
     
    #29     Dec 9, 2011
  10. Absolutely. When people use the word "Elites" as derogatory, they often make the inclusive list too small.
     
    #30     Dec 9, 2011