Why do Conservatives Embraces Libertarians, but Neo-Liberals Don't?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by RCG Trader, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. Conservatives always tell me, that I am a conservative in "waiting".
    Liberals look at me with distaste. The only thing I can think of is that Libertarians will not subsidize bad behavior.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Neo Liberals are socialists.
     
  3. In politics, the S-word is a lot like the C-word, or the N-word. But as this election cycle is pivotal, I am listening harder now than I would have in the past.

    Neo-Libs, now is your chance, I know you are lurking. Why do you not accept True Libertarians.

    We have no issue with gays, or abortion, or any of that, as long as you don't attempt to tax me for it.

    What is wrong with Libertarians, Neo-Libs.

    Not a joke. I tell conservatives that I am a Libertarian, they smile.

    I tell Neo-Libs that I am a libertarian, they dont smile, they don't scowl either, but they are clearly uncomfortable, why is that?
     
  4. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    :confused: Probably has something to do with the "tolerance" they're always preaching.
     
  5. No such thing as libertarians; they are in the real world, corporate socialists. Regular socialism is a lot better than corporate socialism. You'll see.
     
  6. Ahh, that's why they are so hostile towards libertarians, because we 'don't exist'... ROFL!!!

    Corporate socialism??? That's a good one... That's our number one argument against big government, corporations will always come buy it out.

    We already have seen. We have seen how free markets are more prosperous than bloated bureaucracies. Hong Kong vs China, South Korea vs North Korea, Switzerland or Monaco vs France.



     
  7. You already know the answer. Tolerance is a foundation principle for liberals in theory, but in practice it quickly becomes apparent that it is limited to ideas they agree with or which otherwise have PC protection. For example, they increasingly criticize Christians for a perceived lack of tolerance on issues such as homosexual rights and abortion. At the same time, they are the biggest supporters of the rights of muslims, even though it is the single most intolerant belief system in existence.

    True libertarians value freedom and individual sovereignty. Liberals view the populace as largely ignorant, bigoted and unable to make sound decisions. That is why they want enormous unelected bureaucracies running things and why they are happy with an activist judiciary( as long as it rules their way).

    Conservatives and libertarians share common ground in believing the biggest threat to personal freedom is large government. Liberals view government as the source of progress and the insurer of prosperity. Conservatives tend to differ with libertarians over the role of government only at the margin, eg drug laws or foreign military ventures.

    Liberals are obsessed with equality of outcome, at least in theory, although liberal elites seem quite willing to make exceptions for themselves and their families. They point to the normal distribution of income, wealth, etc as somehow grounds for political intervention. Libertarians and conservatives value equality of opportunity but understand that outcomes will vary. They abhor privilege however, while liberals seem to view it as their due.
     
  8. TGregg

    TGregg

    Fixed it for you. The fundamental, guiding principle for the rank and file liberal is equality. Two people start off being born and one has a much better life than the other - that's inherently wrong to the left. Government should equalize this.

    The opposite is true for libertarians/paleo-liberals. Their major underlying concept is liberty - let everybody do their own thing until it interferes with someone else's "own thing". I guess you could go crazy and extend interference to mean things like offering somebody a job at a wage that the left considers unacceptable. But libertarians are of the opinion that consenting, informed adults are free do as they wish to each other. Curious how different the bedroom is from the boardroom for the neolibs.

    God only knows what the single major underlying concept is for conservatives might be. Rather than one, I think there are two - liberty and morality. They also have differences with informed consent in the bedroom compared to the boardroom.

    To return to the original question about why libs vs conservatives, the former is in favor of a much bigger government with more power than the latter. While conservatives have their legal agenda, government programs and various liberties they wish to curtail, the list is shorter than that of their opponents.
     
  9. I feel like this is a bit of a distraction. Modern day republicans and democrats are pretty close to the same thing. Bush and Obama have very few meaningful differences in terms of policy. Healthcare is the only significant difference.

    The establishment WANT people paying attention to the left-right axis of the political spectrum, because the IMPORTANT axis is the libertarian-authoritarian one. Libertarians should be working hard to educate republicans and democrats about the important spectrum which the establishment is desperately trying to keep hidden.

    I don't know that I'd agree that "the list" is shorter with republicans. It may seem that way now, simply because republicans are not currently in power. When they DO get in power, they come up with new programs, departments, more liberties they wish to curtail etc. Right now you aren't hearing about them, because they have no power to implement any of their desires so they don't even get to think about what they'd like to do. For instance, the 'war on drugs', iraq war, dept of homeland security, having more prisoners than anyone else in the world (over 1% of population), open border policy, patriot act, and more- all republican babies. Hell, McCain wanted to spend billions on some new national criminal information network and more jails and prisons!

    But because republicans are NOT in power now, they are finding common ground with libertarians.

    It's republicans who need to reform. Republicans need to acknowledge the error of their ways, and realize how they have contributed to where we are now. If they didn't create bullshit like I've listed above, it wouldn't have created an opportunity for the left to put in Obama.

    After all, do you REALLY think Obama could have happened if it weren't for 2 terms of Bush? Do you REALLY think Obama wasn't a direct response to Bush? As much as I'm against everything that is happening right now, I lie the blame for it at the feet of the republicans.
     
  10. Hmmm, I've noticed this in this thread. No Neo-liberals have responded. Conservatives have spoken up, other Libertarians have spoken up. No Neo-Libs.

    Hermit?

    You have the floor?

    777? Lucrum? Bigdavediode?
     
    #10     Sep 25, 2010