Why did Europe open the door so much for Islamics?

futurecurrents · Mar 22, 2012

Quote from Grandluxe:

True. but I think you do not recognize the context in which the founding fathers are regarded in America. Because of its youth and the need for a national myth to unify the nation, the founding fathers have an almost godlike status in the US.

Many people in fact do regard quoting the constitution and the words of the founding fathers with as much reverence as they quote the bible even though they are but mere fallible humans and historical research has borne that not all their actions were as morally upright as is popularly believed. Many of them in today's society such as Sam Adams would simply be regarded as hooligans and thugs. LOL But as I said, it serves a purpose to perpetuate the myth.

I know to a European this seems rather odd.
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And I'll bet the wisest among them knew how insufficient they were.

PHOENIX TRADING · Mar 22, 2012

Quote from jem:

great ideas, limited govt, no income tax, tariffs to protect important industries... those are still the formulas which work.

Many of them warn about yielding and predicted the problems we see today.

you pick the subject... we can so you their predictions and warnings.

"I am convinced that those societies (such as the Native American peoples) which live without government enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under the European governments. Among the former, public opinion is in the place of law, & restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did anywhere. Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves & sheep. I do not exaggerate."
- Thomas Jefferson

"The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."
- Thomas Jefferson

"The system of banking we have both equally and ever reprobated. I contemplate it as a blot left in all our constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction. I sincerely believe, with you...that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson

"To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition. The incorporation of a bank, and the powers assumed by this bill [chartering the first Bank of the United States] have not, in my opinion, been delegated to the United States by the Constitution. They are not among the powers specially enumerated."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution - taking from the Federal government their power of borrowing (from privately-owned corporate banks)."
- Thomas Jefferson

"We are undone, my dear sir, if legislation is still permitted which makes our money, much or little, real or imaginary, as the moneyed interests shall choose to make it."
- Thomas Jefferson

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2004/241204centralbanking.htm
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Sorry jem but tariffs are a terrible way to fund gubbermint. A very small consumption tax is much better in my opinion.

PHOENIX TRADING · Mar 22, 2012

Quote from cgroupman:

And his spelling is not improving. Still types 'Liebral' - but, seriously, I don't use ignore, I just chuckle. When people become so obsessed in their biases, or their religion, you cannot sway them with objectivity. They generally have such sad lives that they seek some sort of comfort in playing childish word games.

Does add some fun to boring day. The silly typing is just like watching someone squirm in their seats when confronted with logic that dispels their belief system. Oh well.

c
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When you have an idea more substantial than my spelling or grammar let me know.

I like the laughs.

Trader666 · Mar 22, 2012

They've learned their lesson because "multiculturalism" (bending over backwards for Muslims) has failed spectacularly:

In the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994
In France:
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/February/Frances-Sarkozy-Multiculturalism-Has-Failed/
In Germany:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed
In the Netherlands:
http://www.stonegateinstitute.org/2219/netherlands-abandons-multiculturalism

Quote from noob_trad3r:

Why did Europe open the door so much for Islamics?
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achilles28 · Mar 23, 2012

Quote from Martinghoul:

Huh? Yet again, achilles, I really don't see how you're able to make these sweeping generalizations. Europe isn't just Greece and France, you know? It's also countries like Germany, which has had reasonable social programs for decades and seems to be doing better than pretty much anyone else out there. Moreover, industrial base migrating to Asia? Sure, some countries in peripheral Europe, such as Italy, Spain, Portugal etc, which are characterized by rigid labor mkts and other such problems, have gotten de-industrialized over time, as a result of the loss of competitiveness. But Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, etc, which are all countries with relatively generous social policies, are some of the most advanced industrial nations out there and it's certainly not because of debt. For more interesting examples, look at Ireland or Japan. At any rate, I really don't see what you're talking about.
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I guess there's no debt crisis in Europe, after all? A fiction invented by journalists to sell more newspapers, maybe? Germany is fine. The UK, France, Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Greece, are not fine. I'm surprised you can't connected the dots between unsustainable debt and "Reasonable" social spending and trade policy. Where does one get the money to pay for the gigantic bureaucracies and lavish social programs, if not from the economy? My entire point, and maybe I should retract my comment on your fluency , is this "middle ground" approach, is a moving target, which always shifts towards unsustainable economics (short-term gain, for long-term pain). The "Extreme" approach, the hardliner approach of strict fiscal conservationism and relatively protectionist trade policies, is far superior and would have avoided this entire debt crisis to begin with. There is no middle ground there. No comprise, Martin. Black or white. Right or wrong. Yes or no. Up or down. North or south. Don't waffle on the issue

Martinghoul · Mar 23, 2012

Quote from jem:
Providing for amendments does not mean they were compromising their principles.

If the founding fathers were yielding the middle ground we would still be talking English. I mean bowing to the queen.

This is sort of like the Einstein quote... do you think the universe is friendly...

You see the world through a lens which indicates to you compromising your principles for the sake of unity works.

I do not see it that way. If you principles are good by adhering to them you create a better society.

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty
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You're being utterly silly if you imagine that the founding fathers were these unyielding stubborn fools who existed in the world of high-faluting principles and rigid moral standards. I mean didn't you quote Alexander Hamilton earlier? What about the bitter disagreements between Hamilton, on one side, and Jefferson and Madison, on the other? What about the compromise they eventually reached? Does that sound like a bunch of ideologues to you?

Martinghoul · Mar 23, 2012

Quote from achilles28:[/i
I guess there's no debt crisis in Europe, after all? A fiction invented by journalists to sell more newspapers, maybe? Germany is fine. The UK, France, Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Greece, are not fine. I'm surprised you can't connected the dots between unsustainable debt and "Reasonable" social spending and trade policy. Where does one get the money to pay for the gigantic bureaucracies and lavish social programs, if not from the economy? My entire point, and maybe I should retract my comment on your fluency , is this "middle ground" approach, is a moving target, which always shifts towards unsustainable economics (short-term gain, for long-term pain). The "Extreme" approach, the hardliner approach of strict fiscal conservationism and relatively protectionist trade policies, is far superior and would have avoided this entire debt crisis to begin with. There is no middle ground there. No comprise, Martin. Black or white. Right or wrong. Yes or no. Up or down. North or south. Don't waffle on the issue
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Well, in order to preserve whatever is left of your good opinion of me, let's just agree to disagree on this, shall we?

Martinghoul · Mar 23, 2012

Quote from Grandluxe:
True. but I think you do not recognize the context in which the founding fathers are regarded in America. Because of its youth and the need for a national myth to unify the nation, the founding fathers have an almost godlike status in the US.

Many people in fact do regard quoting the constitution and the words of the founding fathers with as much reverence as they quote the bible even though they are but mere fallible humans and historical research has borne that not all their actions were as morally upright as is popularly believed. Many of them in today's society such as Sam Adams would simply be regarded as hooligans and thugs. LOL But as I said, it serves a purpose to perpetuate the myth.

I know to a European this seems rather odd.
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I am aware of all of this, thanks... I am being intentionally provocative.

achilles28 · Mar 23, 2012

Quote from Martinghoul:

Well, in order to preserve whatever is left of your good opinion of me, let's just agree to disagree on this, shall we?
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I don't agree to that