Wrong. http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/evolution.html This is patently ridiculous. First I'd like to see these "arguments" that contend the earth is a closed system. Seriously. Second a computer is not a lifeform; it is not adaptive. However a computer equipped with a solar panel most certainly would start up if I "threw it on the front lawn" (assuming the toss didn't break it). Are you seriously arguing that solar energy is of the lowest order from which no usable work can be extracted? Then explain to us how solar panels can convert solar energy into electricity. For that matter, explain to us why photosynthesis works, given the "low quality" of solar energy. The earth receives less than one billionth the energy output of the sun. I would contend that at least half that goes into making weather. The remaining bit goes into powering life processes, of which evolution is a tiny fraction. All of evolution is a subset of reproduction, and reproduction is a tiny fraction of how most living beings expend their time and energy on earth. In other words, what you assume is some massive entropy decrease due to evolution is but a small fraction of all the entropy changes due to life processes, the vast majority of which involve entropy increases.
"The earth receives less than one billionth the energy output of the sun. I would contend that at least half that goes into making weather." LOL!!! People who preach science should at least act as if they had a modicum of understanding that the sun does not "make" weather.
Really? The sun doesn't evaporate water to enable cloud formation? The sun doesn't heat the earth during the day, and the earth doesn't release much of the heat during the night to cool, and the resulting temperature differences doesn't cause winds? Weather "just happens" and solar energy has nothing to do with it?
Water evaporates, the sun does not evaporate water. http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_is_evaporation.htm You sound soooo stupid when you discuss science. The sun doesn't make weather, the sun doesn't evaporate water, the sun does nothing but emit heat, light and radiation due to chemical reactions...and being a large mass has a strong gravitational field which interacts with other gravitational fields. Is there an interaction between the sun's heat, light, gravitational field, radiation and the earth? Yes, of course, but the sun doesn't make weather nor does the sun evaporate water...
1) I am speaking of macro-evolution as defined by Huxley and Darwin, not micro or adaptation. 2) Thank you for catching that. I mis-stated my point. I meant to say that I concede your point that evolution could occur in an open system, however, any laboratory exercise to obtain quantitative data supporting the thesis would be occuring on a closed system. 3) No. Solar energy would be sufficient for much of the theory, however the magnitude of the ordering (keeping in mind the baseline of the starting point, molecules-to-man) would hypothetically require non-random energy such as magnetic, electro-chemical, surface tension, gravitational, etc.. In other words, ordered energy in addition to random energy. My analogy of the computer laying on the ground, waiting for solar radience (random energy)to start it, would obviously require an ordered energy potential such as the solar panel or a connection to a power source. I quote Gish ( The Origin of Biological Order and the Second Law): "...The evolutionary scenario begins with a primitive earth surrounded by a primordial atmosphere of simple gases bombarded by the deadly destructive ultraviolet light of the sun and electrical discharges. Somewhere in all of this, according to evolutionists, exists a remarkable mechanism. This mechanism is so all-powerful, all-pervasive, so precisely effective and specifically directed that it is sufficient to conquer the all-pervasive unceasing tendency of matter to become disordered. This mechanism would have to be so powerful, so all-pervasive that it would be obvious to all scientists, regardless of their philosophical persuasion. After a careful search of much of the literature on this subject, however, I have failed utterly to find it. Certainly a thorough search of the publications of Prigogine, Blum, Morowitz and others fails to uncover it. Suggestions have been many - crystallization, open systems with flow-through of energy, differential rates of movement toward disorder, irreversible thermodynamics with sudden movements far from equilibrium, epicycles with autocatalytic molecules. All fail close scrutiny............"
LOL from dictionary.com: evaporate âverb (used with object) 4. to convert into a gaseous state or vapor; drive off or extract in the form of vapor: The warm sun evaporated the dew. Dude, get a grip. If this is the best you can come up with to attack me for defending evolution, just give up already. Speaking being soooo stupid about science: there are no chemical reactions in the sun; it's all nuclear reactions.
Hummmm, so the sun influences the weather...... I wonder if that influence extends to the Earth's temperature as well?
That you can't employ -a formal methodology concerning how to apply reason- to Fairies, Mythical Beasties, Fire Breathing Dragons, Greek Gods and God ....tells you what exactly ? That God is different !?
That you can't employ -a formal methodology concerning how to apply reason- to Fairies, Mythical Beasties, Fire Breathing Dragons, Greek Gods and God ....tells you what exactly ? That God is different !? [/QUOTE] It tells me, stu, that christians and evolutionists must take certain elements on faith. However, and I don't mean this flippantly, the Holy Spirit strengthens the faith of a seeker. Whereas, I would assume Darwin is at a stage of gross disorder at this point.
Well erm, ok Barth, buts that's like me asking you what does the formal methodology concerning how to apply reason to the study of fish tell you about things that actually live in the sea? Then you reply, the formal study of fish and fanciful imaginations are both based on faith. They are not. The former obviously is based on the formal methodology concerning how to apply reason. The latter is based on fanciful imaginations The formal methodology concerning how to apply reason to the world about us brought forth Evolution. Your faith, which has shown cannot be based on that formal methodology concerning how to apply reason , because it is about Gods, Goblins and all manner of Fanciful Things, tells you what? To just to assume Evolution is at a stage of gross disorder at this point. !? What does that tell you? To keep on fallaciously comparing a formal methodology concerning how to apply reason, against fanciful imaginations, with the word faith.?