Why can't the Dems come up with a real winner for 2008 ?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Kicking, Apr 28, 2007.

  1. Thank you Z. Your idiotic, mindless ad hominem rants have allowed me to see, with perfect clarity, the absolute worst of the left. No substance, no details, no alternatives - just pure unadulterated ad hominem.

    I really mean thank you. Reading your posts here over the past few years has allowed me to define what I never want to become.
    #11     Apr 29, 2007
  2. Shhh we are too busy spreading democracy and freedom to iraq! A fair and free trial for all! WE ARE LIBERATORS

    Gordon Thomas

    Each prisoner receives six pints of dank, tepid water a day. He uses it to wash and drink in summer noonday temperatures of 50 degrees Celsius.
    He is not allowed to wash his clothes’. He is provided with a small cup of delousing powder to deal with the worst of his body infestation.
    For the slightest infringement of draconian rules he is forced to sit in painful positions. If he cries out in protest his head is covered with a sack for lengthy periods.
    This is daily life in America’s shameful Gulag – Camp Cropper on the outskirts of Baghdad International Airport.
    Only the International Red Cross are allowed inside. They are forbidden to describe what they see.
    But some of its staff have broken ranks – to tell Amnesty International of the shocking conditions the 3000 Iraqi prisoners are held under.
    None had been charged with any offence. They are listed as suspected “looters” and “rioters”. Or listed as “loyal to Saddam Hussein”.
    Every day more prisoners are crowded into the broiling, dusty compound.
    Surrounded by ten-foot high razor wire, they live in tents that are little protection against the blistering sun. They sleep eighty to a tent on wafer thin mats.
    Each prisoner has a long-handled shovel to dig his own latrine. Some are too old or weak to dig the ordered depth of three feet. Others find they have excavated pits already used.
    The over-powering stench in this hell-hole is suffocating.
    “Add to sleep deprivation and physical abuse you have highly degrading conditions which are tantamount to torture and gross abuse of human rights” said Curt Goering, deputy director of Amnesty International, the London-based human rights watchdog.
    He confirmed that Amnesty had received “credible reports” of detainees which had died in custody, “mostly as a result of shooting by members of the coalition forces”.
    Camp Cropper also houses a growing number of what are listed as “special prisoners”.
    They include the former deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz, Saadiun Hammadi, the former speaker of the Iraqi Parliament, and Ezzar Ibrahim, the son of Saddam’s second in command on the Revolutionary Command Council.
    The one woman “special” is Huda Ammash – known as “Chemical Sally”, because a key member of Saddam’s chemical and biological weapons programme.
    The week before he committed suicide, Dr David Kelly, the English scientist, had prepared a list of questions he planned to put to her when he returned to Iraq to assist in the search for weapons of mass destruction.
    Chemical Sally sleeps in a tent with other women members of the Ba’ath party. Like the men they are not allowed to wash their underwear – and several have developed unsightly sores, according to a Red Cross visitor.
    After two months incarceration none of the “special prisoners” have been told what charges they will face – though several, like Tariq Aziz, then had surrendered voluntarily to the Americans.
    A glimpse of his life nowadays has come from one of the few prisoners to be released, Adnan Jassim.
    “Tariq Aziz has aged very much in the past months in the camp. He shuffles and has a stoop. This may because he has to dig his own toilet hole. It is forbidden for anyone to help him to do this. He is treated just like anyone else – an animal to be driven wherever the guards want him.
    “His hair has grown. It is very dirty. He gets no special treatment. The same terrible food. Mostly he eats very little of it. It is hard to believe he was, second to Saddam, the most powerful man in Iraq”.
    Jassim was arrested the day after the war officially ended. He insists, according to a Red Cross official, that he was stopped for speeding.
    “The Americans just fired at my car. Then they threw me into a truck and took me to the camp. At the gate I had a badge pinned to my shirt. It said’ presumed killer’. I have never even fired a gun, let alone kill anyone”, Jassim insisted.
    Amnesty’s human rights workers and Red Cross officials have gathered statements from the few prisoners who have been released.
    One is Qays al Salman, a 54-year-old guard at one of Saddam’s palaces. He claims: “One day we became so angry that all the man in my tent began shouting, ‘Freedom, freedom!’ The soldiers rushed in, tied us up and forced us to lie down in the middle of the day in the open. Some of us had bad sun stroke.
    Other detainees, like Suheil Laibbi Mohammed, who used to work as a mechanic, repairing Saddam’s fleet of cars, said he had seen prisoners repeatedly hit with riffle butts”.
    Detainees described being given food as inedible to Muslims. Most of the meat was pork. “But it was either eat it or starve”, said Rafed Adel Mehdi.
    Tariq Aziz’s wife, Zureida, and his two sons fled to Jordan when the war ended.
    In London their family lawyer, Dr Abdul Haq al-Ani, wants to serve a writ of habeas corpus on Britain’s embattled Defence Secretary, Geoff Hoon, arguing that his client is being held in contravention of the Geneva Convention and the Human Rights Act.
    “I spent a week in Baghdad but I was not allowed to see my client. I know the conditions he is being held under from those who have been released. It is outrageous what is happening”, he said.
    Chemical Sally’s family are also planning legal moves to have her freed.
    They have submitted evidence to the Americans that she has breast cancer and requires to continue with her medical treatment.
    Her mother, Kasmah Ammash, a frail 70-year-old said: “My daughter was diagnosed with breast cancer in the late Eighties. She went to Pittsburgh for chemotherapy and underwent a mastectomy. Before she was arrested she was undergoing further follow up treatment. How can they be so cruel”.
    Amnesty International said it had urged the coalition forces to look into such allegations – and to bring to justice those found guilty of offences.
    “The Americans have acknowledged there are some serious problems. But there is a difference of opinion on what laws apply”, said Mr Goering.
    Nada Doumani, the International Red Cross spokesman in Baghdad said “we never comment on the conditions at the detention centers”.
    “The Geneva Convention is clear about the obligations that exist for legal advice and visits. If someone is being held as a POW then there is a legal obligation to allow them access to legal advice. But if they are held as a civilian detainee that does not apply. A tribunal has been set up to decide which category each person in the camp fits into. Until their work is complete we can say no more”.
    A spokesman for Lt-General Ricardo Sanchez, the coalition forces commander in Iraq, said he could not give a time frame when the tribunal’s work will be completed.

    #12     Apr 29, 2007
  3. I think he's the best candidate and wish there were more like him in BOTH parties. Maybe he'll be scooped up as a VP.

    That low key, not in your face approach - just what we need now - a break from the imperial presidency and a step back from the world stage. He looks competent and clean too and might well be a leader that would restore respect for the US. Kind of like having Tim Russert as president. :)

    Why am I not surprised that ET would produce a draft Henry Rollins plea? Ho ho. :D
    #13     Apr 29, 2007
  4. I think people are missing your point.

    Other than Iraq there's no single wedge issue polarizing the electorate.

    The Democrat's as always will lean on their diverse coalition of homosexuals, socialist Jews, Blacks and Mexicans.

    Among swing voters there's little anxiety.

    Assets are pumped, rates are low, everyone's working.

    I doubt you'll be hearing "it's the economy stupid". People vote their pocketbooks. Of course markets could deflate in the next 18 months.

    Democrat's have a opportunity to select a visionary, idealistic peace candidate. Instead they face the choice of multiple neo-cons.

    Unlike consensus I have no doubt the Democrat's can run a war. Christ they've started enough of them. My fear is the Democrat's are war mongers. Hillary, Obama, Edwards spend more time talking about how they'll defend Israel from Iran than any other issue.

    Cut and paste: Conservatives don't support American's dying in foreign wars.

    #14     Apr 29, 2007
  5. FACT: Bush was wrong on Iraq.
    #15     Apr 29, 2007
  6. Looks like a$$hole Giuliani is leading the race


    Incredible, whatever his fiscal record is as
    mayor of NYC, a staunch supporter of Bush policies can't possibly get elected !
    Plus , he's a big a*hole, really !

    You only have to listen to him for a few minutes to realize that but there was a great article in Playboy a long time ago telling of his insane ego and megalomania dating back from his college days. And you would want to throw a guy like him in a war , two wars rather... well how many wars are you actually waging now ? I am losing track of them, Afghanistan, Iraq, Terrorism, Terror , Iran (almost)...
    #16     May 3, 2007
  7. Arnie


    FACT: Bush ain't running for office. :D
    #17     May 3, 2007
  8. Isn't that better than a Dumpacrap leading the race?...:D
    #18     May 3, 2007

  9. Honestly, i still think jeb will pop in there sometime.
    #19     May 3, 2007
  10. cstfx


    No, the more articulate son is forever screwed from this higher office thx to the birthright of older, less qualified big bro and for big bro not being able to control his vice president. Is there any doubt who is really responsible for this country's current woes.

    As to the Dem race, Richardson is without a doubt the most qualified candidate for the party. Hillary won't get it because 45%+ of the populace already say they will never vote for her. Obama, just a flash in the pan, for now. (Plus, Oprah is endorsing him.) When you get beyond the 2 rock stars, Richardson is the clear winner. Former energy secretary, un ambassador, negotiated the original nuclear treaty with NK, is an adminstrator as the governor of NM. (Look at presidents elected for the past century: an overwhelming majority of them were governors running, not senators or congressmen. This is why I believe Corsine also left the senate to be governor of NJ.) However, based on the minority pecking order, who would be more likely to be elected first: a woman, a person of color, or a hispanic?
    #20     May 3, 2007