We are not totally disagreeing, we are just pointing out aspects that the other my have over looked. However as long as a company's equity price, i.e., the cost of a unit share of ownership, has anything to do with how a company's value is determined, speculation will have much to do with valuation. This is Soros's great insight, i.e., speculation effects fundamentals. Speculation very much changes the valuation of a company!
MrMuppet is giving valuable info, but doubt anyone's listening or able to participate in that market. I can't or don't (directly, speaking, indirectly, yes) Rehypothecation, Sec Lending, prime brokerage... No way to provide context without shilling my biggest altcoin bag that has outperformed my btc holding. Celsius network symbol $cel is the number 1 player in this crypto business. I got in around 20cents, I'm up over 1150% in a 7 month period, still hodling. ~$30K invested valued at over $350K. Their competitor in the CeFi is the famous BlockFi and lots of DeFi competitors in the deposit/lending biz through smart contract everything (i.e. flash loans on single block execution) [Alex invented VoIP, trivia, lol]
Hmm, not sure Soros is a great authority on equity valuation and trading. He made some big bucks in currency markets and after his fund pulled everything into long term investments. Speculation according to more authoritative figures like Ray Dalio drives short term equity fluctuations but long term value is very highly correlated with discounted future cash flows. Speculators have close to zero impact on long term valuations. I guess we can both agree that the speculative component or should I say fluctuation in valuation on long term value lies in the estimation of such future cash flow and how sustainable such is. Obviously future cash flows of startups or companies with high growth rates are harder to forecast than mature companies. Cisco stock price was largely driven by speculation in the early 2000s but since has been mostly adhering to discounted future earnings and cash flow estimates. Same with property priced in Japan in the 1990s vs afterwards. Speculators have very limited impact on valuations other than in the short term.
Inefficiencies at times of high demand creates high yields. Sorry to belabor the point made in my previous post, but bitcoin is a hard money digital asset with enormous value and as such can be used as collateral in the deb/credit markets. Might have said that incorrectly and hope MrMuppet would correct me. Alex (Celsius) has mentioned in YT they haven't even seen a limit to scaling their institutional crypto lending business when asked if they're having a hard time given the fact that AUM (currently at $3.3B) on their platform has grown significantly in a very short time. Below, BlockFi discussing that financial market opportunities. People comparing bitcoin to tulips have no idea what they're talking about and will continue to be ignorant in this space. 1 btc as collateral can get you $9K wired to your bank account 1-2 business days, no credit check, it's that valuable
no you didn't, the statement is about prime number distributions and applies at any price, its not economically related
"Bitcoins inherent value is zero and will go to zero." That was said and is SIMILAR, though not EXACTLY the same as Bitcoin something about prime numbers and ha ha goes to zero. I guess it's completely different because it's a NEW reason, not one of the 50 OLD reasons. Got me there, captain. I feel awful foolish. It's not economically related, but the price goes to zero, eh? Okay, whatever you say Professor Bitcorn. Please explain the connection between your Riemann hypothesis and anything to do with Bitcoin. I actually am interested, though pardon my skepticism of yet another Bitcoin Obituary.
This isn't really a disagreement with Pekelo's point. He said both TSLA and BTC have value because people think they have value. All you've explained is that the belief 'TSLA has value' is arrived at by some means X whereas the thought 'BTC has value' cannot be arrived at by the same means.