Who is winning in the west: christianity or atheism?

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by tradingjournals, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. If you are too lazy to search for answers, I'll do it for you.

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    What do scientists think about religion?

    According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/24/opinion/la-oe-masci24-2009nov24

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    Here's a an article by Dr. Francis Collins, the director of the Human Genome Project and one of the most respected scientists in the world.

    Collins: Why this scientist believes in God

    http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-03/us/collins.commentary_1_god-dna-revelation?_s=PM:US
     
    #31     Sep 23, 2012
  2. For someone of average intelligence there is no working or intellectual difference between agnostic and atheist. Agnostic is atheist.
     
    #32     Sep 23, 2012
  3. Well, I think your description of agnosticism omits the nuances of difference between atheism and theism. While you are logically correct that because an agnostic is not a theist, he is therefore an atheist, this syllogic statement ignores the reality that human belief systems can't be fully described in simple terms of logic.

    An agnostic can indeed exist between the two poles, unprepared to deny the existence of God yet unwilling to accept wholeheartedly that God does not exist. It's part of an individual's existential journey to make a decision for oneself.
     
    #33     Sep 23, 2012
  4. stu

    stu

    I suggest it's fair to say human belief systems that can't be fully described in simple terms of logic, are generally found to be illogical, incoherent or inconsistent. Religious belief systems are often all three.
    Not described in simple terms perhaps, yes, as human feelings expressed in the emotional and superstitious shape of religion, are going to be anything but simple.

    However, I suggest that is not reason to excuse human belief systems as something existential, as if to say they deserve some special dispensation from the normal intellectual rigor all other understanding, basic through complex, is subject to.

    Furthermore, I'd say it is not that agnostics are unprepared to deny the existence of God. Far from it. In that regard it is said they know they can't know enough to deny it!

    If they can neither deny or affirm, for whatever premise or conclusions they want, they exist in between as you say. Then they are neutral. It is not a nuance.
    The point I would make is like with pregnancy, there are really only two circumstances.

    Neutral about belief in a God is to be without the belief to be a theist. Without belief is de facto atheist. It's what the 'a' is there to denote. Atheist might go on further to deny there can even be the existence of a God, but essentially it is the lack of faith and belief for an atheist.

    Gnosticism IS theism. Simply another variation of Christianity using Platonic references.
    Atheism is to theism as apolitical is to political, as Gnostic is to agnostic, which is bottom line right there with atheist.

    An individual's personal decision as to what they believe or do not is I think a separate issue entirely.
     
    #34     Sep 23, 2012
  5. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    #35     Sep 23, 2012
  6. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    How about for someone of above average intelligence?
     
    #36     Sep 23, 2012
  7. You make a good argument, but we aren't going to agree. Yes, you are either pregnant or not, except if you are that British female soldier on the front lines, who wasn't pregnant until she went into labor.

    You say agnostics know their knowledge is insufficient to deny the existence of God, but perhaps thier knowledge of God is insufficient to accept such existence. Atheists in the West reject the existence of a Judeo-Christian god as they feel the evidence is unquestionably thier favor of a Godless universe, whereas agnostics are still pondering the issue. Yes, they lack theism, but they are not robust full fledged atheists.

    I think we could argue all day but it seems we are both right if we agree that there are different strains of agnosticism.

    One thing I know is you are definitely not agnostic on the particular question of what agnosticism means!
     
    #37     Sep 23, 2012
  8. had you bothered to look deeper at the data you would have found that their term "scientist" includes many professions not related to the question at hand. it includes computer scientists,social scientists,building scientists ect. if you go to scientists who actually study the question at hand like biologists or cosmologists the number of believers drops to like 7%.
    francis collins is an interesting case. if someone such as him actually presented evidence for his belief in god we would have to take notice. however if you read his work you find no such evidence. he simply "feels" there has to be a god. no evidence needed.

    http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2006/12/deluded-scientist.html
     
    #38     Sep 24, 2012
  9. Belief In God Plummets Among Youth
    The younger generation is abandoning God in droves.

    A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that belief in the existence of God has dropped 15 points in the last five years among Americans 30 and under.

    Pew, which has been studying the trend for 25 years, finds that just 68 percent of millennials in 2012 agree with the statement “I never doubt the existence of God.” That’s down from 76 percent in 2009 and 83 percent in 2007.

    Among other generations, belief in God is high and has seen few changes in recent decades. Between 81 and 89 percent of older generations say they never doubt the existence of God, although the older the generation, the more likely they are to believe in God.

    The chart below reflects the Pew survey’s latest findings.
    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/belief-in-god-plummets-millenials.php?ref=fpb
     
    #39     Sep 24, 2012
  10. To answer the thread title "Who is winning in the west: christianity or atheism?
    The real question who is winning christianity or knowledge and yes knowledge is winning and will win. Education, progress, easy access to information has doomed christianity and all other religions. Worried about muslims in the middle east, our foreign aid dollars should be used to set up internet that can't be disabled by state governments, knowledge and information can lead to the unradicalization of the muslims, like it's done for the christians around the world.
     
    #40     Sep 24, 2012