Why the hell should I have to explain? You say youâre married, but you have no clue? Let me type slowly so youâll âget itâ: there are some things you simply donât force upon a woman. One of them is your opinion about the fate of her reproductive system. Apparently, this doesnât work for you either; otherwise your wife wouldnât object to your insistence on having another child. Iâm not the one that supports a war started on false pretenses; you are. Iâm not the one that supports a war where the only winners are the corporations reaping record profits; you are. Iâm not the one that supports a war where oil is bought with blood; you are. Iâm not the one evading this fact; you are. Iâm not the one trying to force my version of morality on someone else despite the fact that it is hypocritically flawed; you are. You might not like it, but the shoe fits well for you: hypocrite. What gives you the right to tell her what to do? What gives you the right to assume that you understand her circumstances and life conditions? What gives you the right to assume that all pregnancies exist under circumstances that are bearable for the woman? What gives you the right to lump all pregnancies and all women into the same flawed moral mold that you so adamantly insist is a universal truth? What makes you think that you even remotely know anything about the subject to begin with? Because you read about it somewhere? Do you actually know any women that have gotten abortions? Have you actually seen or understand the conditions that would make them consider such a desperate decision? You talk about it like its routine. You seem to think that abortion as an option is nothing more than an off-the-cuff decision that they make about their pregnancy. While there are some cases of ignorance, the majority of the pregnant women that even consider abortion do so out of desperation. I am not so arrogant to pass judgement on their circumstances. I am not so arrogant as to force my point of view on someone that is already facing what will probably be the most profoundly frightening experience in their life. Being pro-choice has little to do with being pro-abortion. It has everything to do with having an additional option to offer someone that is helpless, desperate, and frightened. Its not a perfect answer to her situation; you donât need to tell her that, she already knows. It only exists as an additional option for someone that feels like they have none. In the end, no one is making that choice but her; no one else has a right to. How the hell would you know? Did you have to make 1 too many midnight ice cream runs? Did you have to do all the heavy lifting around the house 1 too many times? Oh I suppose youâre a frigginâ expert know. (rolls eyes) Open your eyes clueless; our society already does. How many of you âlife is preciousâ fanatics that are all gushy about babies put away their elderly relatives in nursing homes because taking care of them is just too much of a bother? While those facilities service circumstances that are warranted, I see way too many relatives that put their elderly family members into the system just because they are inconvenienced by the situation. After all, changing that diaper is a serious bitch isnât it? Are those lives âpreciousâ as well? I donât see you getting all bent out of shape about that one either.
Is it possible that itâs a little known fact, because it doesnât exist! http://www.safeyouth.org/scripts/teens/suicide.asp http://www.nami.org/Content/ContentGroups/Helpline1/Suicide_in_Youth.htm http://www.afsp.org/index-1.htm http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/suifacts.htm http://www.nimh.nih.gov/suicideprevention/suifact.cfm http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotions/behavior/suicide.html http://www.aacap.org/publications/factsfam/suicide.htm http://www.suicidology.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=44 Out of 8 credible sources on teen suicide, none of them mention abortion as a factor. As a matter of fact, only one mentioned unplanned pregnancy as 1 of several examples of "external stressors" as possible motivation for a suicide attempt. So where is it exactly did you dredge up this âlittle known factâ and just exactly why is it can you not be bothered with providing its source yourself? Maybe because it doesnât exist and you donât know what the hell youâre talking about? You like facts? How about I âclue you inâ on some facts. Since you have a serious problem getting the facts straight, allow me to crunch some simple numbers for you. In 2001, there were 3,971 suicides for the 15-24 year old age group. Of the total number of suicides among ages 15 to 24 in 2001, 86% (3,409) were male and 14% (562) were female. The highest reported statistical rate of teen pregnancy is 34%. According to the CDC, the abortion rate within that age group is 33% of all pregnancies in 2001. Therefore, out of 562, there was a possibility that 191 were even pregnant. Out of 191 possible pregnancies in the above demographic, there was a total of 63 possible cases of abortion. Therefore, out of the total of 853,485 reported abortions in 2001, and women between the ages of 15-24 accounted for 33% (281,650) of all of them, your whopping 63 possible cases of teen pregnancy suicides represent 0.02% of all abortion related occurrences. DUUUHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Even if we discount all the above, and took the raw percentage of total possible abortion linked cases with the total of all female suicides in that age range, its still a far cry from your claims that âteenage suicide is higher in girls who have had abortionsâ. Simply put: YOU donât have a clue what the hell youâre talking about! Since you are a parent of a teenage girl, I highly suggest you take the time to educate yourself on the facts as they truly exist; not what you think they are or what you want them to be to support your position. ALL the above sources agree on several things: * Girls are 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than boys. * Boys are 4 times more likely to actually go through with it. * 90% of all attempted cases exhibited common psychological abnormalities such as depression before the attempt occurred. * Most adolescents that attempt suicide give their primary reason for doing so was to effect change in the behavior and attitudes in others; very typically an authority figure in their life. * Suicide attempts among adults is a sign of desperation. Suicide attempts among children and adolescents is a sign of desperation in order to garner the attention of others. Iâll say it one more time, just in case it didnât sink in the first or second time: YOU DONâT KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOUâRE TALKING ABOUT.
Now you are showing your stupidity on the subject of sex. I thought it was bad before, but now your lack of understanding is truly getting pathetic. Some women donât. Some women are physically, psychologically, socially, and/or socioeconomically, forced to have it. You are still operating under the assumption that all women are in these June Cleaver-like mature relationships and everyone lives and behaves just like you or that they should. What about teenage girls? Are their choices about sex just as simple? According to them; NO: â Among young women ages 15-19 who have had sexual intercourse, 69% described their first experience as âvoluntary and wantedâ; 24% as âvoluntary but unwantedâ, and 7% as âinvoluntaryâ. â â Nearly 9 out of 10 (89%) of young women ages 15-17 report feeling âsomeâ or âa lotâ of pressure about sex.â According to your logic, these teens are in complete control. If you would actually listen to what they had to say, you might actually learn something. Or are you afraid they might tell you are full of shit and be right about it? Since when is it (or should be) entirely up to the woman to provide birth control? So when a guy wants to have sex, his only responsibility is to show up with a hard-on? It would appear to make more sense to take the bullets out of the gun than have to wear a bullet-proof vest? Again, you are making assumptions about how simple it is for all women to come up with the answers. You are assuming that all teenagers act responsibly and that they have easy access. Using the same source I used above: â Only 58% of sexually active high school girls and boys reported using a condom during their last sexual intercourse.â â Only 21% of girls ages 12-17 reported using the Pill as a method of birth control.â â 57% of girls ages 12-17 said it was âembarrassing to go to a store to buy condomsââ. âAmong the same group, 39% agreed that it was âunhealthy for girls to use birth control pillsââ. Once again, considering the demographic and the circumstances in which they find themselves in, its not so easy to lump them together. However, that doesnât seem to deter you; for no other reason than, apparently, to force your âversionâ of morality on them.
you don't know much about religion, do you? most people do not make a choice to join a religion. they are born into it. their parents and churches indoctrinate them from birth with constant messages that you are lost if you don't "belong". they use all kinds of emotional traps to brainwash you. eventually most of your friends "belong" so any questions are discouraged. you will probably find a mate that "belongs" so any resistance on your part will cause family problems. if you are lucky enough to break away and go to college and get to know people with open minds you can sometimes break the grip but many aren't that lucky especially young women from the rural areas. it takes a strong will and mind to overcome the indoctrination. the moral of the story is that many woman do not "make a choice to be a catholic". they become trapped even if the only thing holding them is an inability to break the emotional indoctrination they received as a child. in the end they are forced to either ignore the catholic church mandates and sin by taking contraceptives or risk a family of 10 children.
Now you're back on track Riserburn! Solid. Just to add one more thing: The religious right has adamantly <b>blocked</b> every single effort made to make the morning after pill available OTC (no prescription required). Currently, buying this pill requires a doctor's script, which is causing untold misery, stress, and <b>abortions.</b>
Without reading any of the posts after my last post (yes, riserburn I did not read any of your latest posts) I have decided that this subject has run it's course as far as I am concerned. Abortion is murder plain and simple. Period. My opinion. Everyone has an opinion just like everyone has an asshole. And they all stink. Bye to all of those who advocate murder... :eek:
Absolutely correct. Let's also add the blocking of conventional birth control pills to be provided under publicly funded healthcare programs. It all boils down to a group of people that want to force feed everyone else their interpretation of morality. They wrap themselves in the American flag and claim that they love "the freedom for which it stands", yet they insist that Draconian measures of control be placed on the entire population when it pertains to issues that only they morally object to. Of course, all of this is justified with moral standards that they selectively apply in an extremely hypocritical manner.
Run BITCH run. You are the typical neo-commie. A illiterate moron devoid of intellect and the ability to reason. What you have going for you in your small little world is religious fundamentalism. What happens when we let illiterate fundamentalists like you take over? Look no further than the rag-head nations we are currently at war with. Quote from version77: Without reading any of the posts after my last post (yes, riserburn I did not read any of your latest posts) I have decided that this subject has run it's course as far as I am concerned. Abortion is murder plain and simple. Period. My opinion. Everyone has an opinion just like everyone has an asshole. And they all stink. Bye to all of those who advocate murder... :eek:
We've almost arrived at two points that I'd like to see discussed, if people are willing: 1) Is there anything that is inherently immoral, or is all morality a societal construct? 2) Is it acceptable or unacceptable that the majority of a society (or the government elected by the majority) get to dictate the laws for the entire society?