Who is losing money day trading Emini S&P 500

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by emg, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. emg


    Who is Losing money day trading Emini S&P 500? Is it because:

    A) trading with stop

    B) trading with stop when the risk is greater than reward? For example, 1pt profit target, 5 pts stop.

    C) subscribing unregulated 3rd party educational vendors

    D) trading with no stop and average down/up

    F) lack of knowledge the definition of futures/commodity market
  2. Big AAPL

    Big AAPL


    I read your posts in the ES journal everyday, from the "Good Morning Traders" recital to the distant price target "1 point trades".

    You're a clever individual, no doubt. Personally, I am leaning towards the suspicion that you are literally calling the move with a pause level for at least a point reversal. Some people are apparently reading between the lines and profiting. I have done so myself.

    However, I also understand your stance on stops. Before you preach to the masses, might I suggest that there are a multitude of fresh traders who NEED stops to remind them of why their trade is wrong. Methodology with no stops work for the seasoned veteran but can kill a neophyte.

    Be kind to the noobs, and keep on truckin'
  3. wrbtrader


    Your question (poll) is bias towards a discussion about stops because 3 of the 5 variables are about stops as a cause for traders that lose money when trading the S&P 500 Emini ES futures.

    Here's a list of different reasons a sample of +600 traders on Emini futures and Eurex/Euronext futures stated (at least each trader selected 3 from the following):

    * Lack of a trading plan

    * Poor trade method (mainly those using indicators and most tended to be inexperience traders)

    * Poor trade management after entry (includes profit targets, stop/loss, trailing stops)

    * Poor money management

    * Poor position size management

    * Under capitalized

    * Lacking discipline

    * Cost of trading to high (e.g. commissions, resources et cetera)

    * Inadequate trading environment

    * Inadequate equipment (e.g. trading via a slow internet speed)

    * Other

    Some of the variables you've mentioned were important reasons to a low percentage of traders in my poll many years back at another forum (poll was active for about 3 years) when they described such in the * Other category.

  4. You forgot choice E

    I am undisciplined and trade the ES with a 1 point target without a stop averaging down into losers and allocate 100,000 per contract because deep down inside I am afraid of being wrong and that is exactly what a stop loss proves when hit.
  5. I've had a rough time on the ES.

    It's a very noisy market, I really don't understand ID traders choosing it over the ER2 for example
  6. wrbtrader


    You meant TF (not ER2)...I'm a long time Russell 2000 trader and I make that mistake too after it moved from the CME to the ICE. :cool:

    With that said, the Emini ES is very popular in comparison to the Emini TF due to it being more liquid, more institutional involvement, more promoted/marketed to retail traders, more education resources et cetera.

    However, I prefer the Emini TF because of better volatility and it has more directional price movements. However, that's a double edge sword because I think the Emini TF is only suitable for traders using momentum or volatility base trade methods.

    Thus, if someone prefers to trade momentum, volatility or directional price actions...the Emini ES futures will be more problematic in comparison to the Emini TF futures.

  7. the1


    Well said. Back in the Go-Go days (1999-2000 & 2007-2008) I only used a disaster stop. Using any kind of stop within range of your trigger would guarantee consistent losses. During this time I either doubled down or averaged frequently and it worked incredibly well. There were also occasions when doubling/averaging wasn't necessary. This is where experience and judgment comes in. Fast forward to present day...my stop is much closer to the trigger but still tends to serve as a disaster stop. 99% of my losses occur with the trade-out button. If my stop ever gets hit it means the market moved really, really fast or I F'd up. I learned early on that close stops will guarantee losses because the market is more random than not (only the newbs will disagree with this) but as Big AAPL notes, they will keep the newb in the game. Hopefully, to survive long enough to learn how to do it right.

  8. hma



    I am new to Elite Trader. I am trying to find a consistent day-trading method. Can anyone tell how I shall start? Or in your experience, what is the most consistent day-trading method? Thanks.
  9. Pick an instrument, stare at it for at least 2,000 hours then formulate your own ideas. There is no easy way to do it.
  10. NoDoji


    Trend-following will provide the most consistent profits if you learn how to trade with the trend properly.

    The way to learn how to trade with the trend properly is to pick an instrument, stare at it for at least 2,000 hours then formulate your own ideas.
    #10     Dec 20, 2010