LISTEN TO WHAT THESE GUYS ARE TELLING YOU! I graduated in may from a great state school last may. I have a 3.8 GPA. I missed the boat when it came to getting into goldman sachs or a big financial firm for this summer/ fall so i will try for next summer/ fall (08). I am worried since i already graduated they will not take me I will still try and let you know how it goes. I am 20 and graduated two years earlier then average. So far i have worked as a fixed income trader at the CBOT for a prop firm. This was a "real" prop firm. You traded only the firms capital and they taught you how to trade ... they taught the very basics of technical analysis and could not hold positions overnight ... it was alright but i felt i wasn't growing + they gave a really crappy contract trying to hold me with them for 3 years so i left. Currently i am working as a futures broker at the CBOT. I am looking to start my own fund right now and becoming a CTA I will try to get some of my clients in as well as getting some backing from my boss. If the CTA thing works out then great but i cant see myself making sales calls 5 years from now. I talked to an old futures broker at meryll lynch and he told me the industry is dead and that the big boys like meryll are out of the business. I would much rather be in goldman sach's at their sales and trading or get into a good investment bank as an analyst. Do you guys have any suggestions for me? (Especially ways to break into it)
I am finding it damn near impossible to break into institutional sales and trading I have met recruiters at U of C and they tell me since i have already graduated it would be difficult. I know i have the background to land a position there (finance degree, great grades, and passion for the markets with experience) Anyone have any advice?
Seems like lots of new people ask the same questions but never get a straight answer, so here it is... No one, nowhere, will teach you how to trade. Trading is simply something you cannot "teach". I'm talking risk-taking positions here, not market-making spots. You can attend a training course where they explain, "This is a stock...this is a bond...etc", but no one will teach you how to make money. So, how do these guys do it? Simply, they pay their dues to gain exposure to the markets, and a small number develop some type of ability or edge that allows them to make money. Note I said THEY PAY THEIR DUES. This might mean several things: 1. Join a retail trading firm (or whatever they choose to classify themselves as), lose $20k, lose another $20k, lose another $20k (and so on), until you might soak up enough of the markets to develop some type of trading skill before you go broke. 2. Join a prop firm that hires you as an assistant to a senior trader, then possibly gives you some capital to trade with. You will be a low-paid grunt for 18 months, but at least you get a chance to see how the markets operate and develop some ideas about how to trade. These types of firms will put you on a VERY short leash if/when you are on your own (i.e. you have X months to show you can make money or you are out). 3. Go get a degree (good undergrad or MBA) and join bank or hedge fund where you will assist a trader, thereby allowing you to learn about the markets. If you learn enough they may let you trade some of their own capital. Cost of an MBA is well over $60k these days. 4. Offer to be an unpaid assistant to a wealthy individual trader who might pass on some of his/her knowledge. My point is that the ONLY way to learn how to trade professionally is to be in an environment where you are immersed in the markets day-to-day. That's about it. Most people won't like hearing this sort of stuff, but reality bites. I've been through most of the above so I speak from experience. This is not to discourage anyone from pursuing trading for a living, but I think you should be well-informed that this is a high risk/high reward industry (emphasis on high risk) where there is no free lunch. Good luck.
Details please, I've applied like crazy i know i've got the grades and the degree (according to recruiters and a friend that used to be an investment banker) but still can't get in at an I-bank or hedge fund. Is there anything you would suggest that could help me get in? PS. I've read vault and wetfeet guides ... they are useless they just tell you to go through your school but your school doesn't help you (giving on campus interviews) if you've already graduated and the recruiters there are pissy about that too.
I have to disagree with some of the previous posters. If you want to trade (really trade) not work as a salesman "trader" there is no better time than now. If you wait you will never do it, you will get married, have kids, and more responsibility.... In other words the best time to do it will be behind you.... I got started in my twenties and have never looked back.
Yoyoman, your college recruiters are useless. Find alumni who are in positions of influence and network the hell out of them.
Good lord, these threads are so depressing for the aspiring prop traders but it is as irresistible as those email attachments where people get decaptated. Where are the Szevens and the Steves of this board to balance things. Gr8, if you go prop you must go in and give it everything as long as it takes and if you do so the sky will be the limit. Most shops including my own will only teach you 4-5 strategies that alone won't make you shit but they will be the foundation to build more profitable strategies that can easily generate all the money you will need. 99% of traders are never happy with their end of day result, they always want more. On what ground people come here and say prop traders make 50k/yr? No one in this biz would be happy with that. In fact you would considered as a loser if you can only pull this much given what you were taught and assuming you put in the time. Attitude goes a long way too. You can't go in and give it a shot like you don't care if you fail...which by the way is what 90% of people do consciously or not. Failure should not be an option in anything you do and if you don't care to write in your resume that you failed as a trader than move on because you won't stand a chance.
Quote: On what ground people come here and say prop traders make 50k/yr? Good point! That is just a good month... Be careful who you listen to, some people are cut out to be corporate salesman or managers... Listen to them if you want to pursue that for a career, but not when it comes to trading. There are plenty of washed out ex traders with an ax to grind against a prop. firm...... But there are also many of us that make a great living and wouldn't want to do anything else.