Who gets the "Props" for training..?

I don't know if you're still in Texas, but if so, you'll need a Series 63 as well....

Good job on passing the S7, kind of "necessary evil" and tedious.


Don

 

Some of the advice here has been spot on. Blowing your years just out of college at a prop firm, which is one your best shots at getting entry into a decent financial firm is all in all a very bad idea. How are your grades? Do you play sports? The elite firms like elite students who are active outside of the classroom.. People who have proven they are focused on being the best and succeeding where they currently are.

I love the comments, "but traders want to be their own boss...” “trading the dream, sitting in bath robe at home all day" My god, what a joke! Its fantasy island. It’s not about that. It’s not about being "your own boss" or not. It’s about having skills, experience, knowledge, and that particular combination of risk appetite and control that typically take many years to hone and develop.

Trading "trainers?" ha ha. that’s an old joke, isn't it? I have seen these guys literally crying over beer, feeling guilty about how they can't teach their crop of young fresh faced recruits to make a dime.. Yet they cant come be honest, because then they would be out of a job and behind on mortgage payments. many I have met are scared to death of the markets. The only times such training works… you are better off still by just leveraging long!

With a very few exceptions, Prop trading is not a serious route, and is a very very poor choice for one looking to break into the elite ranks. Serious prop firms (they do exist) want guys who are ALREADY successful or have VALUABLE skills like programming statistical pattern analysis, or a high sharpe ratio private trading record. They help you hone and lever up what you are doing already.

If one is unable to get into a good firm out of school, Id suggest getting the best job u can otherwise, work your ass off, trade own account for longer holding period, and look to get into a top MBA or MSQF program, which can open doors to a decent hedge fund/trading department/bank. If during this time u do succeed in bootstrapping your account to 7 figures, then at THAT POINT consider going on your own.

It is much easier to succeed in trading when u have ALREADY succeeded. when one has real, valuable, relevant life skills, and when one is able to build confidence by attaining a high income in a more conventional career. One is 1000 times better off approaching the mkts from a position of strength. A newbie college grad with no career experience, no valuable life skills, no savings, No Viable high income alternatives, etc is not in a great position to break into the game.

People who claim otherwise in are literally selling the dream to suckers. If u want to do that then buy a lottery ticket every week and limit it to that… It will do much less damage to your career.

PS. Texas has an active hedge fund community. Oil and power companies often have active energy trading desks. Might be good places to start researching for jobs.

 

Discouraging words, but valuable nonetheless... Thank you NattDog for you input into this discussion. I greatly appreciate it.

Let me ask you this NattDog and this is for Goldenarm, Tneub, and EEUT84 as well... What do you guys do..? Do you all work for bulge brkt firms on good desks..? This is not an offense, I'm just curious... If so, how old are you and what did you do to get there..?

Just a comment to one of your points about "getting the best job can and working [my] ass off..." Unfortunately, or fortunately depending who you ask, I've already turned down several "best jobs" in order to trade prop. These were decent offers from respectable companies but would've had absolutely nothing to do with trading or banking... Though this was only one small point among all of your advice, I must say that working my ass off at a job that I hate is not an option for me. And as far as I can see getting an MBA or advanced finance degree is still an option if I choose to trade prop. Is there a flaw in that path that I'm not thinking about some how..?

 

Yeah... I just picked up the 63 book today. Not nearly as intimidating, but I won't take it forgranted...

 

Just wanted to chime in and thank goldenarm for giving some of the most realistic (and probably most useful) advice I've ever seen on ET...

I've been on the inside of a couple of what most agree are the (relatively) most reputable prop LLC's out there, and I'll have to agree, that what he's said here is somewhat true. [quoted below]

However, I think that there are going to be a few people, that the prop world may be there best/only option to get out and at least TRY to prove that they can trade. Not everyone has an ivy league degree, or may have known that they wanted to trade straight out of university.

Good luck in your quest Gr8veto. PM me if you want more prop options.

 

Please don't take my words as discouragement. It is the opposite. I encourage a longer term view to achieving your goal. Build a foundation before you start building the high floors.

Certainly do not take a job you hate. Try to get a job at least SOMEWHAT related to your interests. Any job that works your analytical, decision making, quant, etc skills is relevent. Any job that increases your derivative, investment, or general finance skills is relevant.

Earning $$ will increase confidence and fund a private trading account. Start doing the best you can at whatever you are doing - as a policy. Take some smart risks in whatever you are doing and your confidence and income will rise.

Learn the skills that are valued by today's quality trading firms and work towards getting your foot in the door at a serious firm. Learn to manage data and historically test your ideas using the scientific method.

Start applying what you have learned through careful research, observation, and study to your private trading account. (the one you earned via all the hard work and calculated risk taking you have been doing in your job)

U now have a private record of being interested enough in trading to have taken a professional approach to your private investments/account. U can show the logic of your trading program and Track record in a clear presentation. It may not be world beating, but it is steady, well thought out, and displays competence and rigor. You have strong work experience on the job and have stepped up to be a leader in some circumstances. You do the CFA program to increase general financial knowledge, and and also because it will help you gain acceptance within the moneyed and institutional circles. U have had setbacks in trading and career but work hard and recover. Do you apply to Top MBA program? Stat/CS focus? Perhaps at this point you are ready to partner up with a serious trading firm?

Regardless, the ball is in your court because you are doing the groundwork to put the odds in your favor. You are becoming the kind of person rich people and institutions will trust with large amounts of money. Which in turn is the kind of person who has a shot at making it to the big leagues… And if not that, trust me you will still be making a very nice living.

 

Thanks for the follow up post. I definitely see the value and calculated long term planning in what you're saying.

 

You seem very bright and are asking good questions. It can be done through the Semi Prop shops and you do not have to do the Wall Street route. It just takes time, passion and hard work to get your systems or method down and than contacts made to help you network.

My advise is to spend your time and energy on markets that will give you the ability to scale your trading and trading equities is not scalable unless you are doing ETF and some portfolio method. Dump the stocks and look at Global Equity futures and commodities.

Learn to trade options and futures and you will have more options done the road to become that top 100 Young Traders.

Trade well........Good luck.

 

Got the 63 done

 

First thread I read all the way through in some time. Goldnenarm great posts, although just so you guys know there are some of us robed-armchair types enjoying this profession.

Not that my opinion matters much here, but if some guy had a quality degree and a chance at a top tier trading firm by all means do it if you can.