Who broke the USA ?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Humpy, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. The greatest nation on earth? That is your bias speaking. We have the most debt, the most wars, the biggest deficit, nowhere near the best education, nowhere near par in health care services. In most terms, we are lacking far behind other nations.

    One more thing is that Paul is a constitutionalists. States have the right to regulate things like environmental protection. The anti-federalists like Paul advocate a moral local approach that would give the people more say. There is also a proprerty rights issue with pollution in that polluting someone else's property is like throwing garbage on it. The current system picks and chooses who is connected enough to pollute and who isn't. It should be locals who decide this - not a group of lawyers from DC.

    It's not "every many for himself". Right now we have "man vs corporation" and we would all be better off in competitive environments rather than heavily-regulated top-down-controlled bureaucracies. It's a dumb idea to give a room of government employees full control over the environment because the odds of them abusing their authority are far higher than the odds they will do any good.

    I understand wealth distribution differently, the 1% control the wealth because they are writing all the laws to protect themselves at the rest of the nation's expense. If we had a more organic system of government where states had to collaborate instead of the federal government using force, the markets would be more stable and individual voices would have more so.

    I agree that Citizen's united is a scam and you'd need to work to get 2/3 state legislators to amend the constitution. The corrupt supreme court has sold out the country to foreign corporations. Think about it - there is no open disclosure for campaign funding. Any Chinese can open a US corporation, pump in billions and win the election without anyone knowing.

    Unfortunately though, unless the individual's civil rights such as due process, right to trial by jury, etc are restored, regulators and other government agencies have backdoor to implement any law any way they see fit. This is setting a very bad precedent.

    The government is not elite or wise enough to make every decision in every market nor are they smart enough to protect a consumer. They can't even pass a budget. I don't want those people in charge of everything I eat, my medicine, my health, my business, the air I breathe, etc. I'm not sure when the notion of the government being their brother's keeper begun but it's illogical and the more laws and regulations they push, the more powerful they get and the weaker you become.
     
    #21     Dec 4, 2013
  2. Thanks Tsing. I appreciate the feedback. If crazy, crank or bug are puns for people who enjoy and value freedom over authority, I'll gladly wear the label.
     
    #22     Dec 4, 2013
  3. Tsing Tao

    Tsing Tao

    Agree wholeheartedly.
     
    #23     Dec 4, 2013
  4. Tsing Tao

    Tsing Tao

    Do you know why Libertarians advocate eliminating a federally funded EPA? Do you know what they believe will take the place of it? Of course you don't.

    I'm sure you'll scramble on over and try to find that info before you come back.
     
    #24     Dec 4, 2013
  5. Tsing Tao

    Tsing Tao

    BAM.
     
    #25     Dec 4, 2013
  6. I'm not sure it's fixable given the current state of affairs. The country is too fractured, too tribal. I'd like to hear one, just one solution that everyone can agree on. Not pointing out a problem, like we all agree congress is disfunctional, or 14 year olds giving birth to their 2nd kid, etc., etc. Of course we all agree on the obvious problems. A solution. Something where we say, and everyone can agree that this is the way to solve...
    I just don't see it happening. Everyone is too much in love with their own ideas, and much too much worried about someone else getting the credit for a fix. That, and there's just too much history among the opposing parties. We're becoming like the ME. They're killing each other over some shit that happened centuries ago. America is no longer One Nation, unified in our core beliefs. Sounds good on a campaign stump, but it ain't reality. We have a guy who campaigned on just that. There is no Red America, no Blue America, just the United States of America. A stirring speech indeed. And then this same guy does everything in his power to draw a clear line between people, while he and his minions demagoge anyone with a question, let alone an opposing idea.
     
    #26     Dec 4, 2013

  7. I basically agree but....some things need to be done at a federal level. The EPA is one of them. Pollution does not stop at state lines and there needs to be a coherent nationwide policy.

    "I understand wealth distribution differently, the 1% control the wealth because they are writing all the laws to protect themselves at the rest of the nation's expense."

    I totally agree with the above and your comments about CU.

    Constitutionalists? Is that supposed to be good thing? The Constitution is old, out of date and has changed before. I don't adhere to the notion that blindly following words written long ago is de facto the right thing to do.

    Whether the US is still the greatest is certainly up for debate and it depends on how one judges but it is far from from being broken and saying so is hyperbole.
     
    #27     Dec 4, 2013
  8. Ricter

    Ricter

    Tsing forgot "kook", a good term for Paul used by another rightie here.

    Anyway, I'm sure you don't believe in all freedom no authority. Some government is necessary, yes?
     
    #28     Dec 4, 2013
  9. Tsing Tao

    Tsing Tao

    State government, like most of us "kooks" believe in. Weren't you listening?
     
    #29     Dec 4, 2013
  10. Tsing Tao

    Tsing Tao

    There is a process to amend the constitution, as you well know. No one here disagrees with that process should the need arise. What we disagree with, is ignoring the Constitution and legislating over/around/through it without amending it.
     
    #30     Dec 4, 2013