Good point. Can you post 402300 shares and cancel within a second without getting touched and not shown on the openbook?
This is a really interesting point, and actually has been a source of misery for me lately. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on your ideas further. Let me give you an example, if you're willing to bring up a chart. Take a look at X, on Tuesday from 2:45PM to about 3:00PM. It's in a flat range around 51.10. The chart made it look like there was a descending triangle on the larger time frame. The tape was confusing to me, because I detected a passive but large buyer at 51.10. Everytime the price got pushed down to 51.10, a buyer would show up. Sometimes the buyer would be a floor buyer, sometimes the specialist would show a 1 and print a large block, and, basically, for all intents of purposes it really looked like there was a buyer. Thinking there was a large buyer here, I figured it was a safe buy. He'd play games and sometimes let the price drop down to 51.06, flash some crazy size, and then the price would get pushed back up again. Whenever the .10 broke, I'd always panick out and drop my 500 shares or so. When I did buy, and the price ran upto 51.15, I'd finally think the stock was ready to take off -- however, the seller who wasn't on the tape before would pop back in with his shares and drive the price down. When the 51.10 seemed to be breaking and there was modest size on the offer, I would get short. This ping ponging had me flipping positions back and forth in hopes the thing would break one way or the other, but I couldn't tell if the specialist was helping a seller or a buyer or what. Back and forth within the range, and I was sitting there burning commissions. I knew the stock would have to go one way or the other, but by the time it did, ... I got discouraged by the fact that I must've lost a ton of money in just penny/2-penny losses + commissions. BASICALLY, the specialist was playing games to help his buyer who popped in and out at 51.10, and he was playing games to help his seller get rid of his shares at 51.15. I just happened to be the poor fool who got caught in the trap. When *I* looked at the chart, I saw a risk of 2-3 cents and a reward to the upside of about 10-15 cents, and for the short, I saw a potential benefit of 10-15 cents. It seemed like a reasonable setup for a 10 cent scalp, except I got smashed in churn. If I use your strategy, I'm moving to the next stock. No churn. Get trapped twice in a tricky range, I get out. The -big- problem is: When this shit DOES leave the range, it always makes a giant move. That's the move I want. I just want a way to play it without getting trashed in the churn. Some tips, wisdom, or advice on the mind games of specialists in consolidation ranges would be helpful. One more thing -- I'm losing because I'm trying to be aggressive and not be left out of shares when the thing does break one way or the other.
if you put up 80 oil stocks on an intraday chart, you'll see that they mostly mirror each other. it's my belief that it's more about the participants and not the specialist. otherwise, you'd see more divergence across the 80 individual stocks.
3 out of 4 stocks move in sympathy with the market, the remaining one won't follow the market due to a specific reason that nothing has to do with the Specialist. For many guys is easier to blame the Specialist for their stupid decisions than to ask themselves "what a f..k I was thinking when I entered this trade". Livermore says it clearly, there is no one to blame, there is no conspiracy to rip you off, you are the only responsible of your actions.
Simple. You were detected detecting. Sometimes I wonder. Not to say anything posted here is right or wrong, but if you'll kindly give me the list of easy stocks that coin money with no pain, I'd appreciate it. I realize the specs and th eMM's on Nasdaq are making it difficult for many traders to make thier daily quotas. I think a class action restraint of trading action is in order.
Lights , popseidous, You two clearly are confused and are thinking in fantasy land espically livermoore fantasy land , I don't even know why people worship him because his ideas/ and his lack of risk trading have little to do in real trading these days. There are lots of games being played the specialists. Espically when there is low activity. When I say play the game, yes of course it has to be played with particpants. Specialists leads, Particpants executes. So if A specialist leads the price 50 cents down, One particpant who sells 100 shares 50 cents down = Does 100 shares sold change the stock value so its 50 cents down in price? No. That action = Specialist playing games with you. Most of the times they know its traders, so they drag the price down to make the traders cover/buy/sell at abnormal prices because they know they have to. Simple as that. There is right and wrong price action, Some specialists will flash wrong price action, which is basically just incongruency. While I don't have any issues with it, I just move onto the next stock, it doesn't bother me at all.
To the "untrained" eye, its very easy to fall for the size being flashed in many situations. Thats why most fall for the same tricks over and over again. They havent learned how to truly play the game along with the specialist and other savy traders. There is no right and wrong price action, there is just price action. You have to determine if its trending action, range action, specialist manipulation etc and trade appropriately. There is plenty of money to be made trading in ALL these situations. The real question is, are you able to handle all that the market throws at you?
I trade on complete chart price action, , I don't watch Bid/Ask other then for liquidty, So I don't know if my trading ideas would work for you. One P/Action idea for you: But Looking over that specific part 54.10 had a buyer but the specialist never allowed price to stay above it with buying support, You need to wait till the specialist leads price and stays above that support until you should be buying, 1:15 - 2:50 Looking a few hours ahead, there were 3 times where the specialist did allow it, but failed to do anything about it. THis should tell you something, a specialist won't sit there and dabble around like a complete retard unless there is nothing to do .
I don't watch Bid/Ask level2 for trading. So flashing "size" never concerns me, When I say flash, it means flash PRICE. It seems like maybe you think there are just "one price action", because some traders are not even price action traders they can not diffentiate what is wrong or right price action. I can though. ------- I don't need to handle all the market throws at me. I just need to handle what I throw at the market.
The market doesnt even know that you are involved, its much more important to change yourself in order to adapt properly to the game. The game aint changing for you or anyone else.