whip saw action is severe-very tough

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Warrior4g, Dec 13, 2007.

  1. piezoe

    piezoe

    Ha Ha Ha Jam, "creation of genius"

    Well maybe not quite!
     
    #31     Dec 13, 2007
  2. JimyJam

    JimyJam

    Sure they are man.

    Capitalism is arguably the highest form of organization that disparate human beings can operate under one umbrella in, and the markets are one of the best arenas I've ever seen for pure capitalism to take place, with no middle men (or women) required to achieve whatever goals the individual is capable of.

    Sweet :)

    Jimmy Jam
     
    #32     Dec 13, 2007
  3. bighog

    bighog Guest

    Breakout trading has absolute best risk/reward ratio of all. Nothing better in catching a run than BO trading. With a solid understanding of risk management (cut losers short and let winners run to your levels), you will and MUST come out ahead. Whipsaws are the bugaboo of BO trading. We all know how to control false breakouts and work retraces but avoiding whipsaws is a pesty, about the time you decide to change tactics off she goes. So indeed, keep pecking away and you will get the days run.

    No one says every day will be a winner. (except spydertrader (sic) .. :)
     
    #33     Dec 13, 2007
  4. Very impressive, indeed DAX scalper.

    Do you do those trades all manually, or with an automated program? If the former, I'm even more impressed.
     
    #34     Dec 13, 2007
  5. My clicking finger sure does get a workout .

    Actually my trading has gone back to basics, There was a time I traded using 5 screens , multiple time frames and all sorts of indicators.

    These days I just trade off my laptop....1 market 1 screen 1 chart
     
    #35     Dec 13, 2007
  6. I can imagine that you get quite worn out with all those trades each day.

    What hours do you trade the DAX? EST
     
    #36     Dec 13, 2007
  7. From 0800 CET which is 0200 EST. I take lots of 5/10 min. breaks away from the computer and usually stop for the day at around 1800CET.
     
    #37     Dec 13, 2007
  8. You must give me the name of your broker.

    Just like any arena its full of leechers and parasites, scammers and shammers, blaggers and bullshitters. Dream on mate.
     
    #38     Dec 13, 2007
  9. jd7419

    jd7419

    Well enforcer I echo your sentiment even though most "pros" on this board do not. I netted about $2200 on 550,000 shares today. I came back from down $3300 in the am. Alot of banging of my fists etc today. The market to me just doesn't feel right. It's hard for me to quantify this because I am a mostly discretionary trader. Anyway I talk to the principal at my firm regularly and firm wide this month is pretty bad as a whole for their traders. And to those of you kicking ass props to you guys.
     
    #39     Dec 13, 2007
  10. cd23

    cd23

    Every day is a winner. Check the change in price of anything with respect to open price compared to closing price.

    Every night is a winner. Check the difference in price of close to open.

    Bighog talls us about his bugaboo and how he compensates for not having a trading strategy for what happens when he is in the market after he finds out he caught a no run.

    Here time passes and he discovers false breakouts, retraces to work and "pesty" whipsaws. Obviously he cuts these losers short each day and is on the sidelines with all his capital for a while. He limits how much he pulls off the sidelines in the first place to be sure he has preserved capital all through the trading day. Obviously he can't say every day is a winner even though he is using a method with the best risk/reward ratio of all (he suggests).

    So bighog trades BO's. What is a BO of a false BO? A BO of a retrace? Or a BO of a bugaboo whipsaw?

    Lets say there is no false BO or no retrace or no bugaboo whipsaw? How does big hog exit? This is not his special case of cutting a loser short. It is a case of letting a winner run. When does he exit? We do not know as yet.

    If he lets a BO become a false BO, then it is a BO that is a loser. He takes a BO and it becomes a retrace after a while; enough retrace passes the time for a while. What does he do with a BO trade that is retracing? He does something.

    He, at some point, changes tactics. He is no longer looking at the BO strategy. Generally at this tactics change time, bighog observes it is the time when "off she goes". He watches.

    Bighog doesn't win every day.

    If you want to take the cure from this modus of trading, you need to learn to "read" the markets. To be able to "read" the markets, you need to be able to "see" the markets by having a comprehensive display.

    Where do you look to see whipsaw coming into the picture? Name three places.

    Where do you look to see that a BO is coming? Name 9 places.

    What tells you in advance that a failure to BO is coming? Look 5 places.

    Where do contrarians look to take entries at the beginnings of retraces? Look 7 places.

    All the places counted are showing on my screen. Also I trade all of these because it is part of being in the market all of the time.

    The excel posted shows a scalper going in and out of the markets. He does scalps for one reason: to make money. If he isn't he exits and waits for the next opportunity. 1 or 2 cars makes 7,000 dollars a day this way. It it possible to have a losing day trading this way? I don't think so.

    What would it be like to slow down the scalping and just reverse on each turn of the markets. It wouldn't be just be BO trading, but it would include BO's, failure to BO, retraces and bugaboo whipsaws. This would turn the bugaboo whipsaws into a series of profitable segments.

    There is always someone on the other side of bighog's trades when he cuts losses short. Look at the excel and see how much time price moved when the scalper was sidelined. Debrief and look at how the losing trades could have been cut short.....or reversed to make some money. Debrief the excel by circling the BO trades and note how the exit on the BO trade was done. Lots of ways.

    The last exercise gives you a good picture of just how poor doing BO trading as the only trade really is. It is okay to think that BO trading is the greatest. It isn't as has been shown several ways but it is okay to think it is for a while until you are able to move on...... LOL..
     
    #40     Dec 13, 2007