Which Trading Environment Would You Choose To Hone Your Skills In?

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by rogueRED, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. rogueRED


    Which Trading Environment Would You Choose To Hone Your Skills In?


    -Demo Account: no real funds and no emotional capital involved.

    -Mini-Live Account: minimal real funds and almost no emotional capital involved.

    -Standard-Live Account: your normal funds and your normal emotional capital involved.

    -Randomized Account*: probability of either LOGGING into your Demo or Standard account (lets say 10% live to 90% Demo) but you will not know until which one until you are flat. Advantage: practice like a demo, "feels" like Live - trader psychology.

    A) Demo
    B) Mini-Live
    C) Standard-Live
    D) Randomized

    * this is a US and UK patent-pending method with a lot more explanation, but for this purpose I am just looking for professional trader feedback.
  2. Lethn


    if they won't let you open up a standard account without a minimum deposit then get a micro account, I'm doing that myself right now. Don't trust the simulations, just from what people have told me about them they sound incredibly unreliable especially with the fact that they use past data. If you are dealing with past data then that will inevitably lure you in a false sense of security because that's when the markets were fine and there was no recession coming. It's also far easier to manipulate the simulated trading than the real one.

    To put it simply practice on the real one with small amounts, otherwise you won't have any taste of what it's like trading for real and be prepared to lose money through this method, but in the end you'll come out richer for it.
  3. MGB


    My gut reaction? Dumb. I'm just sayin'
  4. honing your trading skills?
    There is no such thought in the human mind on "honing"
    People want to trade and make millions their first year, honing? This isn't a buddhist temple. Nobody is going to sit there and hone.

    product will fail. don't bother producing it. goes against natural human instincts.
  5. Not a pro but I've hit some decent volume the past two years so here's my two cents...

    Start on a demo. Even tho it's not the real thing, it's like training wheels - you get to wade in rather than diving in (I dove in). You can learn the mechanics of trading, in particular, familiarizing yourself with your broker's platform. But nothing prepares you emotionally for real trading. That comes from being there.

    When you get to real money, start small. Scale up slowly as confidence and perfomance grow. And always dance near the door :)
  6. olias


    The random thing is an interesting idea. I wouldn't call it dumb. I think it's pretty clever. It's a way to keep emotions part of the equation and also limit the risk from trading live all the time. I think there are too many potential problems from people getting frustrated, pissed off, potentially trying to fight the broker contesting whether it was supposed to be live or simulated....I don't see that getting off the ground.

    So in answer to your question, it really depends on each individual. Factors such as experience and risk capital are key. A complete newbie (especially with limited funds) is probably gonna be much better off doing sim trading. Learn the mechanics of trading and identifying trades first. Learn to handle the emotions later. One thing at a time.

    Other tactics could be used to try and make emotions part of the sim experience. Maybe define a punishment / reward structure based on sim performance. Gives one a chance to see if they can follow through on that structure and demonstrate some discipline.
  7. rogueRED


    .. everyone, thanks for the comments already.

    this is clearly not for everyone, but a few more points to make from my perspective

    1. if i were a prop shop, Id much rather give a guy the randomized account so he/she thinks they are trading live funds but may not be. I just saved myself risk capital and was able to better cultivate trading talent in the process.

    2. mini/micro accounts. i think they have their purpose, but penny slots hardly address the emotional impact the $5 slot machine has on a trader. .. and anyone trading for a living, isnt using the penny slot machine so they are essentially teaching themselves bad habits.

    3. the regulatory/risk issues are sorted out and there is a clear tracking mechanism that the trader AND clearing firm can both see and pull up if the accounts were trading in their demo or live environment. This is actually designated ON LOGIN, BEFORE any trade takes place so no manipulation can occur.

    4. i believe trading psychology is monumental in long term trading success and to date I know of no live mechanism that can help someone understand how their emotions REALLY affect their trading decisions - reading a book or going to a seminar doesnt count b/c its not with you when you're sitting in front of your screen.

    5. product is well in development for the retail space to start. I was looking for feedback from the professional space.

    thanks again and feel free to write me directly for further details
  8. Redneck



    It depends – and even then I believe all your choices are probably all wet…

    You trying to develop a trader with their own feel for the market/ style of trading….


    You trying to develop a monkey to take entry signals then exit at a predetermined level for a loss or gain

    Or worse yet

    You trying to develop a “new and improved” way to train newbies to trade profitably – which you will undoubtedly profit from…

    None of your choices are the best – so why the hell should I share my hard learned experience and suggestions just so you can use them to take advantage of someone… Oh and also affording you the ability to tout your method as trader endorsed/ developed with actual trader input…

    Maybe you’re legit, maybe you not – I have no way of knowing… You asked for professional trader feedback – now you have mine.

    I also find it comical you are in the process of patenting how someone learns – Oh wait – my bad – you are patenting how you teach someone to learn…


    You ask in what environment we professionals would choose to hone our skills – Specifically what skills are you referring to?

    And of course I can write you for further details – Yep I’m all over that one like white on rice (apologies to my colleagues preferring brown rice)


    IMO there’s been a lot of crap posted on this forum lately – this one just adds to the heap

    So here’s your shot OP – I hope you’re able to prove me wrong – Yes sir I really do…

  9. rogueRED


    Hi Redneck -

    I'm not asking for your secrets. I'm asking what environment would be best to learn from? If you are a profitable trader I am sure you skinned your knee more times than you can count ... wouldn't you have rather "paid your due's" in an account that may not have hurt your bank roll but felt as if it did when you were still in it? Thats all I am asking so I can hopefully provide a tool to help people really understand the mental aspect of trading as most act like lemmings and chase after the newest indicator or system. As you know finding good traders is not an easy endeavor - hence my reason Im posting this only in the "Trading for a Living Forum".

    Ill keep my mouth shut on your other comments and take them as good banter and assure you I have no interest in building testimonials from a forum of people with fake names who I know nothing about. - I trust you understand.
  10. bellman


    the best is a live account. demo won't work. we all know that. and it doesn't matter the size of the account. money is money. if it's such a small amount that the trader is emotionally detached, all the better
    #10     Apr 14, 2010