Correct. You had no choice. You responded. Less choice again because of the Troll you are. You're like a self-controlling ignore button that doesn't have the free will to activate itself. Although that leaves others limited free will somewhat intact. No smell of troll shit if you manage to control yourself . Point proven if you don't. Love that cage Troll-logic confines you to.
Ok so you agree. Humans have only limited choice NOT free will. So any nonsense about your God providing free will is exactly that. Nonsense. I don't need to define your God Bernard that's for you to do. Nevertheless any definition whether it be transcendent or mystical or metaphysical or whatever, still leaves your God as imaginary. God is inevitably that personal illusion for children you mention when all is said and done. However , this is about refuting the idea humans have free will not defining God . But your God obviously hasn't provided free will as you have confirmed that to be so. De facto - your transcendent being inevitably directs humans by that omission alone. So you say in that case it cannot be transcendent. I agree. That leaves God as indeed personal and childish - an invisible friend. Oh boy come on Bernard. So there is only limited choice for humans. Right. God does not provide free will . Right. We agree. Free will is a contradiction in terms. No go. Your transcendental God by definition HAS interfered in the material world. It has set parameters in which free will is not available. That directly and constantly and repeatedly interferes against peoples' will. Metaphysics need only be rational as a means of understanding. Nothing more. There is no need to talk of absolutes when just one obvious difference is conceivable in the set up of things. Any omnipotent God would be able to provide free will within the scope of rational metaphysical understanding. In metaphysical terms I can imagine one that can. Now you have provided even more of an oxymoron - limited omnipotence. I'm saying it takes a lot of imagination to construct the many excuses needed for an invisible fiend which constantly contradicts Itself. Whilst on the other hand it takes just a modicum of logical reality to appreciate anything omnipotent could easily arrange for anything to be possible. If It is omnipotent and It doesn't make those arrangements , apart from being outright contradictory - It is cruel , malicious and self-serving. If It is omnipotent and it canât â then It is not omnipotent in the first place. On the question of free will, there is no need for the outright impossible to be made possible as you mention. Just a simple state of one person's will not removing someone else's free will . Although I must say, any God that canât do the outright impossible is not much of an omnipotent God. Even I can imagine one that can . Much easier to imagine than a self-contradictory " transcendental God of metaphysics which is not alive to begin with (nor is he dead)" . What's the next thing you will be imagining and then trying to excuse - that this God of yours both exists and doesn't exist !? You see Bernard , whatever you imagine your God is or isn't, anyone can imagine one better, more powerful, more in control, more cruel, more kind, more evil, more contradictory. Yours cannot match anything anyone else's can be. Invisible friends have that ability. You are describing a God that is severely limited in a really basic way. Free will should not be that big a deal. Anyone's personal invisible friend can do better than that. Which makes yours just more cruel or more evil.
Oh, in your view I had no choice, but I know I not only had a choice, but made the right one... Just like in your mind you think have no choice but to sink to the lowest level in response...which of course is the oldest cop out in the world to justify an abdication of personal responsibility since babies were first born and blamed their parents for all their ills... Oh how I do love watching you self immolate in defending that little birdcage you have placed yourself. You are like a guy who locked himself in a cage, threw away the key, and blames everyone but himself for his incarceration... Your hatred of God is immense, and I wonder if you even realize that this hatred binds you go God just as much if not more than does the love of God. Were you unattached and unconcerned, there would be no need at all for elaborated and bloated nonsensical rationalizations for being a convict thinker ultimately determined only by the free will and choice of your own mind alone...
Don't be so mean to him 151. Just point out to him that Judaism is an Eastern Religion because Israel is in Asia, in the Middle East to be more precise -- not Europe or Northern America, and that is the place were Judaism originated. Since Christianity and Islam are the offsprings of Judaism it logically follows that they have roots in Eastern religions. However, Christianity is not by any stretch of the imagination just based on Judaism alone. Catholicism contains very many elements for example from the pre-Christian religions of the people in Europe (i.e., the West) that it absorbed. The entire man god myth (Jesus as God or the son of God) is straight out of Greek mythology.
Judaism is not an eastern religion. Middle east is not east... At least try to be precise in what is commonly understood. http://www.religion-cults.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_religion http://www.religionworld.org/east/er1.html Is Judaism an eastern religion? Nope... http://www.myjewishlearning.com/ideas_belief/Jews_NonJews/NJ_Attitudes_TO/NJ_Eastern.htm You would also be very hard pressed to find any major university teaching a course in eastern philosophy to include the main branch of Christianity, Judaism or Islam, though they might touch on the more mystical Kabbalah or the Sufis. It really has to do with the difference between the Abrahamic religions and those eastern religions which are primarily Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Confucianism, Shinto, etc. One obvious difference is that the Abrahamic religions are known for their involvement in politics and attempts to kill or convert the non believers of other religions. They belief in one God who has no form for the most part, while eastern religions believe in one God who has unlimited forms---as well as believing God also has a transcendental aspect. They believe in both aspects of God, both personal and impersonal....and of course they believe in transmigration of the soul which is denied by all the major Western religions. The eastern religions are more mystical and spiritual in nature and don't have the same history of conquest of other nations or need to convert others to their thinking. They tend to be less materialistic as well. Chances are near 100% that you won't find 2 Hindus at your door trying to convince you to worship their God an that you are going to hell if you don't believe them...
MY God?? You make me laugh Stu. That sounds like I possess God. You are getting better though at this game -- too good for class A philosophical chess. I reset my internal computer. We shall play now at the expert level. If you prove yourself too good for this level I'll reset it to the master level and so on. You still don't get it! The God of Metaphysics doesn't provide free will or anything else. If he were to provide anything it would mean that he is bound in time, and by definition of Aristotle's Prime Mover the Prime Mover always was and he is outside of time and can not change! Perfection can not change. What does that imply in regards to us or anything else in the universes? Show me how good you are now by giving me the right answer.
Yes, but the Christian-Hebrew gOd is nOt the *Our Father* of Jesus. *Our Father* does not forgive because...drum roll... ...he has never condemned. It is for those who have condemned to forgive. What is not readily understood is that the world is a kind of condemnation. That is, the world is a kind of vengeance. Every bit of it, from "energy" to "quarks" to "stars" to "planets" to "bodies"...all of it is a kind of condemnation. This is to say that if one with the power of GoD intended to condemn, "the world" is what the "eternal" condemnation would look like. Who, with the power of GoD, has condemned? Each and everyone affected by the condemnation has condemned. So it is up to each and everyone to forgive. There are not *many* who have condemned. Only one has condemned himself. The one appears as *many* as an effect of his condemnation. No one in the world remembers his attack on himself. Neither does he remember what was before his attack on himself. Jesus did remember the attack on himself. He also remembered what was before the attack on himself. He remembered by forgiving the attack. This was done BEFORE he went to the cross. The cross is the symbol of attack upon oneself. As such, The cross teaches that the world is the self-condemnation of the Son of God. The resurrection teaches that the condemnation can be forgiven, because... the condemnation does not hurt the Son of God. The Son of God is what was before the attack. The Son of God is fine during the attack. The Son of God is fine after the attack. Nothing has changed. What has changed is the concept of change was added to the perfection of the Son of God. The world is the idea that the Son of God can change. The apparent reality of the world is the idea that the Son of God has changed. The apparent hell that is the world is the idea that the Son of God has changed in every way possible. If that were true, the Son of God would be quite the devil. So, The world is essentially the experience of a self-concept. It is the concept of the Son of God turned backwards, upside down, inside out and mangled beyond recognition. It is the concept that Perfection can be destroyed. The world is a concept. That is the good news. A concept can be dismissed from one's mind. It is dismissed through forgiveness. True forgiveness is not like world-style forgiveness. True forgiveness requires some background, such as I have given here. One must understand what he is doing, and why he is doing it. The reason for forgiveness is to end one's experience of the world. Forgiveness gradually washes away the concept of guilt, upon which the world is built. Guilt is an entirely false concept. It is necessary to the foundation of the world as gravity is to inhabitants of the earth. Forgiveness deliberately pulls the rug out from under the illusion. Forgiveness drains the swamp where mosquitos and malaria breed. Forgiveness frees each one to be the truth: innocent. Forgiveness frees each one to "know thy Self"...as...the Son of God. Forgiveness overlooks masks. Forgiveness looks beyond illusions. Forgiveness surrenders to the truth. Forgiveness is guilt surrendering to innocence. There is only one who has condemned himself. There is only one who must forgive himself. As each forgives "self" and "others", he dispells the concept of guilt entirely from the one mind. When the one mind is cleared of all guilt, the world will pass away. It never really was, but for a belief that the Son of God could be changed. Christ!
There is some reasonableness in this assertion. I would add, that if any one or any thing can be limited, then GoD can be destroyed. GoD is all there is. And, GoD does not limit anything. GoD does not create anything that is limited in any way. As such, the world symbolizes the destruction of GoD and denies his existence. The good news is that it is a symbol. Everything in the world is a symbol. Including, Jesus. Jesus did not "come down from heaven" any differently than any of the symbols within the world "descended". Jesus descended along with the collective condemnation of the Son of God...along with the rest of "us". Neither will any of us ascend to Reality any differently than did Jesus. Few have followed his example thus far. But, All will follow eventually. A million years perhaps? Matters not. Time can never usurp eternity. Christ!