which is the best n.y. prop. firm for someone...

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by tofenomeno, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. which is the best n.y. prop. firm for someone who doesn't want to:
    1) pay any training or start-up fees
    2) contribute any personal capital

    i think first new york is one such firm. are there any others?

    i am looking to join a prop. firm, but i'm new and any info would help. basically, i do not wan't to put any of my money at risk and am looking for a situation where i simply get a cut of any gains that i produce.

    thank you!

    p.s. what kind of cut should i expect to be getting?
  2. It's called 'become a broker'...
    I don't know of any place that offers what you are asking...it just doesn't sound very realistic.
    Though i know nothing about prop shops..
  3. Check Swift Trade
  4. CTT


    Hold and Trillium both don't require capital. You'd probably be looking at anywhere between 30%-60%, could be either gross or net.
  5. thank you...

    just about swift, is there another name they go under here because i got the impression from their website that they are just in canada?
  6. Swift doesn't operate in USA.
  7. Tofenomeno,

    Hold Brothers is probably the only prop firm left that does what you're looking for and STILL HIRING. They're very professional and lenient if they think that you have a chance to make it. Their rates are a bit high for starters. I'm still dissatisfied with my rates, but I have to admit that I'm still in this business because of them.

    You can get 45-50% to start.

    As for First New York: I sent them my resume 20 times and got no response...Forget them and their lousy 50k salary
  8. You are MUCH better off putting up 5K at a prop firm. Iif you choose not to and get hired strictly prop (no money up), expect yourself to spend ~ two years digging yourself out of a hole based on the high commissions and very low payout you'll receive. Although you would be getting a chance....But I would strongly recommend putting up some cap.

  9. ok, thanks i will try for hold.

    something about putting up money just doesn't seem right to me. makes it seem like a gimmick, pyramid scheme, or even gambling - although it's probably not. and i am usually the trusting type, so.

    i think that i can make money for a good firm and would be happy with a cut from my net gains. of course, if a prop. firm takes a chance on me and i prove to produce negative results for them i would gladly accept my termination and move on.

    but, yeah, thanks again for the info. i think that i have all that i need.

    good luck on your trades.
  10. I feel that I have given you half-ass information. Right now, if you're new, it doesn't make much sense to deposit 5k, because you will lose it all not only to the market but also to the firm in commissions. It took me a while to realize this...However, when you start making a lot of money, you will feel exactly the way Steve said, because 80% of what you make will NOT be yours with the deal they start you off with. Yes, payout is 45-50%, but the effective payout is actually around 20% after ALL the fees. But this does not mean that starting out at a prop firm is a waste of time. I used to think that it was a waste, but now I realize that it is not. A prop firm like Hold is the only place where you can get a tremendous amount of chance at success. Here's how:

    1. Creating a Buffer:

    The more commissions you generate (ie. churn), the more privileges you get. Privileges such as higher loss limits, large buying power, and eventually better deals. Why? Because now, you have created a cushion to fall back on. If you have made 25k in commissions (gross profit), and if you have a bad week and lose 5k, you can still be in business. On the other hand, this is not the case with traditional retail brokers, where if you make 25k just in commissions, you will get nothing for it. Whatever deposit you made woulda been melted away in fees and they will close your account. When I talk about making commissions, I am assuming that you have made enough money from the market to cover those commissions. If you can't make money from the market to cover the fees, then this is useless.. In other words, your primary goal for the first 6-9 months is to make money from the markets, that is gross profit. Forget about getting a check for yourself. I've seen guys come in saying "oh I am gonna kill it" and end up losing 15k to the market and get fired in about a month. They WILL let you go if you consistently lose their money to the market. You've got to show some discipline and risk aversiveness.

    2. Going up the ladder by churning:

    Buy and sell continuosly based on the principles you were taught and make sure you minimize loss to the market and maximize gross profits. This is also a great way to learn. When you see that you have pulled in 10k from the market, ask for a better deal. Then after 20k, ask for a better deal again. And they will not turn you down as long as you show consistency. However, it will be difficult to get the rates down too much. They will give you higher payouts, higher buying power, and they will even give you commission rebates and wipe out your commission balance (I cannot think of any other firm that will do this). But, for some reason they're hesitant to bring down the rates. I guess they will bring it down if you do a lot of volume. Thats probably the reason. I don't do much volume these days.

    So be prepared to dig yourself into a commission hole and out. Be prepared to be depressed, because i went home many days with my head hanging since i would make $400-$500 every day and all of it is gone in fees. The positive side to this is that you are building a trading career with none of your money at risk. I hope ya read this. I spent an hour writing this...
    #10     Dec 24, 2006