most prop firms that offer genuine support & training will give a noob around 6-8 months i guess (no experience of prop, just the impression i get from you guys). this could be used as a bench mark if that is what we are asking here. if you are trading at home alone (reinventing the wheel) with no coaching or mentoring then it will take longer. 12 months? however - i guess it depends on whether you are throwing 100% of your time into it or 80%. if its 80 or 90% you aint got a chance in hell either way. attitude is the most important thing - being able to trade like its paper money (ie no emotion or bother about the money)
i dont look at it as 'winning' money. i look at it as earning money. winning (to me) suggests an element of luck. may be im being pedantic here? why would we quit something we enjoy? how would we 'win' unless we enjoyed it?
Winners are smart if they quit before they run out of "luck". If you earn money it means you have a system, so you don't have to quit because you don't rely on luck. That's why i wrote "winners".
I started the thread because I have seen many friends, and a few foes LOL, leaving the industry in a steady stream the past 18 months or so. People I know who made steady money just stopped in their tracks and could not see why or understand how. Most struggling traders I know tend to become fairly talkative about their situation either looking for approval or the higher answer, and so having seen so many go and been asked repeatedly I figured I better think about it now in case one day I ever find myself stuck. The thing is that once I became consistent I have remained so and had got into the comfortable thinking that I had paid my dues and learnt my profession etc, and yet this can no longer be taken for granted. It was when a good friend that I worked with fell from grace and finally relented to the game that I realised how many guys quit because they have exhausted their supply lines and/or lost perspective of the jobs place in their life. In my experience very few people KNOW how to quit as they want to succeed but just cannot do it somehow. Ultimately the final straw may be a huge account deficit at a prop shop with no incentive to stay due to the difficulty of making it back or cascading personal debt fuelled trading ventures or the loss of self. I have seen many guys lose their edge and not understand what their edge once was, I have also seen guys continue the bust process at several firms before running out of other firms to go to and having to quit as they can't get another deal. People quit for varying reasons but rarely do they quit as a sound decision. For example I have seen people quit in a temper, quit due to family/spousal pressures to provide and people quit because they just hated the game they once loved. I have also seen other people lose and lose and still plan to stick it out in the event it all turns around. I even know a guy who quit to become a plumber and saved for a year then to make a comeback and have him tell me that if he loses again then he will repeat the process. The question is at what point should we accept failure if we find ourselves struggling. Obviously the answer would be case by case but given that so many people have trouble accepting failure and not wanting to be seen as a quitter I think that it becomes harder to quit. I also think that unlike other jobs traders enjoy the kudos (even if it is pretend or over-hyped) that they receive from others and the fall from grace would be harder to handle, as though returning to reality from living the dream. I have seen guys lose their balls, their focus, their cash, their pride, their spouse, their houses, their lifestyle and yet I have never seen anyone lose their dream of success no matter how shit they did. So I am asking at what point should reality bite, should it be before the occurrence of total despair or should we trade until the bitter end. Few people can ever let go of a dream that they have held for so long and maybe nearly achieved or even lived for a while. I wanted to see if former traders in particular once retired actually felt relieved of the burden or were haunted by their failure, was the dream of trading success easy to put to bed or is it still a source of heart-ache? That is the point, what price is too high, proven well by the guys who openly declare that they will do anything to NOT quit and will do anything to fund their trading suggesting that it is to them an addiction. To me it is business, pure and simple, but to others I think it represents who they are and how they see themselves, as though without trading they are incomplete. I think Futures71 got it right in saying that trading is not life itself, and I think that is the last piece of advice that the New Market Wizards ends with. I asked this question because I took stock of my own success and became aware that over time maybe I am becoming too comfortable with my ability, which could lead to complacency and ultimately failure unless I keep 100% focus. It is very easy after all to go into cruise control mode when doing well and then not realize what went wrong later down the road as has happened to many guys I know. My own goal is to not be next among those who have slipped, and to create a reference point for some guys I know who don't realize that their situation is NOT unique but the time proven way of the failed trader. Thanks for everyones input.
This is a perfect account of many suckers I know who still believe that their miracle will happen, hilarious quote!!
The Beaver traded one of his logs to the Bear who needed it to close the entrance to his den to hibernate for the winter. After winter passed, The Woodpecker offered the bear a handsome price for the log to drill holes into it for his expected family to be born in. The Woodpeckers children gave the log to the maggots to nest in. When the maggots took to flight the termites finished the log off.. Which Animal would YOU be? Michael B.
While following this thread I kept wanting to bring up the issue of mental flexibility. Is mental flexibility not a key ingredient to succeed in this business? When someone keeps failing in trading, keeps getting a stake back outside of trading and keeps coming back for more punishment, he is not demonstrating good mental flexibility. It's no wonder he keeps getting fleeced by the good traders. So to those of you that proudly claim "I will never quit", I wonder if you are flexible enough to succeed. When the market conditions change and your profitable method dies, can you let it go and try some new approach? For some of us the best approach may just be something else altogether, such as becoming a broker, selling trading courses, (stuff the true "traders" so despise), or a new profession altogether. There are a million ways to make money.