When to Stop a Trading System

Discussion in 'Automated Trading' started by SimpleMeLike, Nov 13, 2022.

  1. Q.E.D.

    Q.E.D.

    About 20 years ago I managed money using my own computerized trading systems. We traded futures, with good returns. More impt, I tested tens of thousands of systems, & traded a multi-system strategy, using 20 - 30 different systems, real-time.

    Anytime I found a system testing with > 65% profitable trades, I immediately discarded it. The best traders in the world, other than for short time periods, and/or fast profit objectives, do not achieve more than about 20 - 40% win ratio. That is how the world works.

    Also, all my systems traded the same logic from long side & the short side. Too many "genius" system developers have great systems that only work from the long side, & they get wiped out, during bear markets. Remember, I'm talking futures, financial, but also commodities. Indiv stocks might be slightly different, not to avoid short side, but possibly have slightly different entry / exit rules for short indiv stocks.

    However, with computers, it is possible to do millions of iterations, & one will always find a system that was "perfect," -- but over back time periods. They invariable fall shortly after real-world trading.
     
    #31     Nov 14, 2022
    SimpleMeLike, smallfil and comagnum like this.
  2. Businessman

    Businessman

    Good luck in your quest for the Holy Grail!

    Many before you have searched for this, the system that wins more often that it losses and also makes a large net profit over the long run.

    How are those Holy Grail, high win rate Collective2 systems you posted links to about six months back doing?, are they still going strong?
     
    #32     Nov 14, 2022
    SimpleMeLike likes this.
  3. Collagen

    Collagen

    If It hold backtested metrics into the future it is a quite great system; Main risk is You and your confidence to hold it when inevitable dd will appear and the way You have developed;(confidence in the methodology used during design and development ). My take is that till we have high volatility You should be fine.. (and expect 2-3 x that DD in real time at some point). Good luck!
     
    #33     Nov 14, 2022
    SimpleMeLike likes this.
  4. SunTrader

    SunTrader

    Markets drop faster than they rise and trend longer in bullish phase than bearish, so it is not wise to use same logic, in reverse, for long and short trades.
     
    #34     Nov 14, 2022
  5. Hello Businessman,

    Please do not mistake. I am not looking for the Holy Grail. I have no clue what Holy Grail even means. I was just saying, maybe there are high win rates systems out there performing well. I do not know. I am unable to find that in trading systems that I researched and built. That does not mean they do not exist. I do not know.

    I personally like the swing systems per my examples I posted. That is the best I can do system wise, for now.
     
    #35     Nov 14, 2022
  6. Hello Collagen,

    Thanks for the response. Yes, the high volatility the past 4 years have been helpful.

    Thank you,
     
    #36     Nov 14, 2022
  7. smallfil

    smallfil

    Positive expectation is more important because if it is negative expectation, it is a guaranteed loser. The win rate does not matter if it has no edge. I use a trading system now that is only 30-40% winners but, is positive expectation.
     
    #37     Nov 14, 2022
  8. Hello Q.E.D.

    Thanks for responding.

    A few comments and questions below:

    Question:
    1. Why not at the time 20 years ago, you not trade about 1-3 systems in the future markets and scale those systems up over time vs managing 20-30 systems?
    2. Why the need for 20-30 systems?
     
    #38     Nov 14, 2022
  9. Businessman

    Businessman

    Beginners want systems that win well over 50% of the time.

    Reason is beginners hate losing streaks, with a >50% system losing streaks are shorter than the winning streaks.

    With a less than 50% system, losing streaks are longer. Something beginners don't like.

    Experienced traders are happy to trade systems that win less than 50% of the time. They know winning 50%+ while also maintaining a R:R of more than 1:1 is very hard/ almost impossible to maintain at least with mechanical rules.
     
    #39     Nov 14, 2022
    smallfil likes this.
  10. Q.E.D.

    Q.E.D.

     
    #40     Nov 14, 2022